Video Interview: Friedl Pfeifer

1993.023.0005 Video History Friedl Pfeifer

Interview with Judith Gertler

August 18, 1993

Judith Gertler [00:00:21] This is a video history interview with Friedl Pfeifer on August 18th, 1993, in Aspen, Colorado, and is part of the Aspen Historical Society’s Video History Project. The interviewer is Judith Gertler. Friedl, it’s a great pleasure to meet you, and we’re very happy that you were able to stay in Aspen long enough to share your information with us. It will help us to learn more about the early days of Aspen and also about your contribution to the town and to the area. So we want to welcome you here.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:00:57] Thank you.

Judith Gertler [00:00:59] Let’s begin with some background of your life. You tell us where and when you were born and where you grew up.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:01:08] I was born in Sankt Anton am Arlberg, Austria, the 23rd of March, 1911. I’m giving my age away right now.

Judith Gertler [00:01:24] Would you talk a little bit about your youth and about your early days of skiing in Austria?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:01:33] Uh, I was, uh, somebody put some skis on me when I was three years old. Just little boards. and, uh, they, they were made a little longer as time went on. And my father made all of us skis when we were 4 or 5 years old. He made us some skis. And this was actually before alpine skiing came into being. But we used it, uh, like it is used today because we were born up on a mountainside. And when we were six years old, we really had to be skiers, because that’s how we went to school and back.

Judith Gertler [00:02:25] Did you also ski for recreation? For fun?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:02:29] Only for fun. Lots of fun.

Judith Gertler [00:02:35] And how did you begin to train as a skier when you got older?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:02:43] I was appointed, uh, the first appointment I had when I was 27, 26 years old. Uh, the Austrian girls Olympic team. I was just appointed. No pay.

Judith Gertler [00:03:02] And where did the team train?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:03:05] Uh, in, in Sankt Anton and around Sankt Anton.

Judith Gertler [00:03:12] So the team trained in St. Anton?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:03:14] Yes, yes.

Judith Gertler [00:03:17] Can you talk a little bit about how you happened to leave Austria and come to the United States?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:03:23] Well, that’s a very sad story because I had never any intentions of leaving Austria. But a guy by the name of Adolf came in the, something like April, in April of 1938, and we, we didn’t agree with each other. So I left. And I went, I had an invitation to go to Australia to start a ski school there, which I turned down the invitation because I was, uh, when I was invited, was in January. And then I contacted the people in Australia if the invitation was still there. And I went to Australia and did exactly that, that is the first ski school I put together in Australia. Kosciuszko.

Judith Gertler [00:04:21] And what was the next experience you had with ski school?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:04:26] Uh, after the winter season in Australia, I came to this country and, uh, I was, uh, the first time that I found out that, uh, that, uh, America was building a full-fledged resort, ski resort, was, uh, Claudette Colbert, which I met in Europe. And I visited her in San Francisco, uh, rather in Los Angeles. And she told me that in Sun Valley, Sun Valley, Idaho, there was a resort being built. And I had some contacts with a lot of Americans because I was training the American Olympic teams at that time. So I went to New York and met Mr. Harriman, and Mr. Harriman invited my, all my girls that I trained and me as the coach to Sun Valley on the house.

Judith Gertler [00:05:34] Can you tell us what year you went to Sun Valley?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:05:37] 1938, in, uh, end of October.

Judith Gertler [00:05:43] Okay, um… Not too long after that, you found yourself in the Aspen area. Would you tell us how this happened and when it happened?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:05:59] It happened September, 1943. I was in the 10th Mountain Division in Camp Hale, and we went on a maneuver to come over the Williams Mountains into Aspen. This was the end of September, between middle and end of September, 1943.

Judith Gertler [00:06:29] We’d like to know more about the 10th Mountain Division. Would you start by telling us how you happened to get into it, and tell us some details about how you trained and what the, what your work in the division was like.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:06:48] Uh, in ’42, the winter of ’41-’42 was the last season in Sun Valley, and in the spring of ’43, I moved to Salt Lake City. And there were, there was word around that America would have a mountain division. The ski and mountain division. And of course, I was very interested in that, and I volunteered to be inducted into it, which didn’t take very long. So Minnie Dole, I was in touch with Minnie Dole, who was trying to find all the skiers possible to get into that outfit.

Judith Gertler [00:07:38] Can you tell us what the purpose of having skiers in World War II was?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:07:44] Well, of course, there was some fighting going on in the Alps and in Europe, and that was a very important thing, because the Germans were dug in for 2 or 3 years in, in the mountains, and only mountain troops could move him out of there if he ever come to that.

Judith Gertler [00:08:06] Do any stories come to mind about your days in the 10th Mountain?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:08:11] Oh, yes. There are lots and lots of them.

Judith Gertler [00:08:15] Tell us some.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:08:16] It was, uh, the way I looked at it, it was really not a mountain division. It was a, it was a very happy kind of a club. We, uh, got along very well with each other, helped each other. And it was a very exceptional military group of people.

Judith Gertler [00:08:43] Who were some of the people who were in your division?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:08:47] They were, they came from all over the country. Everybody wanted to be in it. It was something new. And there were a lot of them inducted into it that they have never seen snow or ski.

Judith Gertler [00:09:05] Can you think of some people who we know in Aspen who were also part of the division when you served?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:09:11] Well, there are quite a few of them that are now Aspenites. And when I started building lifts in 194-, ’46, there were quite a few of them moved here. And some of them are still here.

Judith Gertler [00:09:30] For instance.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:09:31] Well…

Judith Gertler [00:09:35] Anybody come to mind? It’s, it’s okay. I understand that as part of the recreation for the troops, for the 10th Mountain Division, you would come to Aspen from time to time.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:09:55] Yes.

Judith Gertler [00:09:56] Can you explain how, where you were stationed and how you got to Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:10:02] Well, I came to Aspen in maneuvers.

Judith Gertler [00:10:05] What I mean is, when you were in the 10th Mountain Division, when you would visit, when the troops, when the 10th Mountain Division would visit Aspen, how would you get here? And how, would you go by, um, what was your means of transportation to get to Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:10:22] Our means of transportation, of course, were our feet because it was in September. There was no snow yet, so we walked here.

Judith Gertler [00:10:32] Can you tell us how far it was from Camp Hale to…

Friedl Pfeifer [00:10:35] 70 miles. We did it in, I believe, in three days. And the third day we came out Hunter Creek. And as soon as I put my eyes on the Aspen Mountain, I quoted Brigham Young. “This is it.”

Judith Gertler [00:10:58] And what did that mean to you?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:11:01] It meant to me that I would pursue it. And if I come out alive out of the war, then I come back and start a ski resort. I was taught in Sun Valley how to do it from Averell Harriman.

Judith Gertler [00:11:28] I’d like to ask you a few questions about Aspen in the 19-, in 1943, when you would come over with the 10th Mountain Division. Did you have contact with people in town? Was there, did you have a good reception as being part of the 10th Mountain? Any stories about coming into town and what you saw and who you met there?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:11:53] Well, the first day that I was here, in the evening, we were allowed to go into town. And of course, the town was the Jerome Hotel. And Laurence Elisha introduced us, the soldiers, to his favorite drink, the Aspen Crud.

Judith Gertler [00:12:18] How did he make that?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:12:20] I really am not quite sure, but it was a fabulous drink. But we had some problems to get back to the camp after a couple of Aspen Cruds.

Judith Gertler [00:12:40] Is there anything else you would like to say about your time you served in the 10th Mountain Division before you went to Italy?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:12:48] Well, I was, uh, just one of the, uh, teachers really, uh, to… We had to teach those people to ski and mountain climb, and, and the main thing was to live in the snow. Uh, and, and I enjoyed, enjoyed it immensely because I don’t think there’s any, any other, uh, any, anybody else learning as quickly as Americans do because they approach everything with enthusiasm.

Judith Gertler [00:13:28] Would you just tell us briefly what happened next in terms of your being sent overseas, and then you’re coming back to Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:13:36] Uh, we were, we were shipped overseas to Italy in the last, we went on the boat the last day of 19-, uh, 64.

Judith Gertler [00:13:51] No, 194-. What was, would it have been 1944?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:13:57] 1944. Yes, that’s right. And we arrived the first day or the first, first week of ’45 in Italy. And we went off the boat in the trucks, and an hour later we were right in the front line, with fresh air between the Germans and our line.

Judith Gertler [00:14:27] Can you tell us if the 10th Mountain Division was well prepared for what you encountered?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:14:31] Very well prepared.

Judith Gertler [00:14:34] Could you tell us in a complete sentence, please?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:14:37] Uh, in my estimation, yes. We were very, very well prepared, oh, yes, of what was coming up. Our goal was to get him out of Mount Belvedere. That was the key to the whole thing. They were dug in there for two years, and we literally had them, have them get out of their foxholes.

Judith Gertler [00:15:13] Would you tell us what happened to you, um, when you were wounded and how you happened to be sent back to the United States?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:15:23] I was, uh, I was wounded, uh, the 14th of April, 1945. We broke Belvedere, and we were on the way into Po Valley. That was the whole key. That was the end of our mission. And unfortunately, we had some mules with us, and the Germans thought that was the only, the only transportation that we had to get supply, which of course wasn’t so at all. The Jeep was the main, the main horse and they, they aimed the artillery shells on the mules more than on us. And there was a small bunch of mules right next to me as we were moving on, and right in the middle of those mules, a, uh, artillery shell exploded and, and, uh, a chunk of that, uh, instrument was in my lung, and I was hauled off into the hospital. And the first, the first transportation I got from German prisoners, young, young guys, and some of them, some of them perked up when they heard my name. That’s how close we were to Austria.

Judith Gertler [00:17:00] And at some point, you were sent back to the United States.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:17:04] Oh, yes. I was in the hospital in, in Italy for, uh, uh, nearly two months. And then I was, uh, I was flown back to, to the States, and I was in the hospital for another five months. And then I was, 16th of October, I arrived in Aspen. Had a Ski Club meeting that day, and that was the beginning of Aspen as a resort.

Judith Gertler [00:17:37] Let’s talk about the beginning of Aspen as a resort. What were some of the things that you knew that you needed to accomplish in order to fulfill your dream of building a ski resort?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:17:52] Well, I grew up with, in a resort that was built, and it was the first ski resort in the world. And I had all kinds of experience, what happens when you start a resort. So I just followed that, what I learned from Hannes Schneider and some other people. And the main thing, the main difference from me to some of the attempts that were made to start skiing in America, I wanted to go to the top of the mountain and not just a little ways up. That was sort of the unusual thing, and I accomplished it.

Judith Gertler [00:18:41] You certainly did. Um. Before we go into the specifics of how the ski industry began in Aspen, I’m curious as to what kind of reception did you receive in town for your ideas?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:18:58] Absolutely fabulous. The population was something like 200 or 250, and they all were very helpful and very enthusiastic. And, and it was a community, was just a pleasure to, to live with. And they helped me every place.

Judith Gertler [00:19:25] What were some of the ways that they later helped you? What were some of the ways that they helped later on?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:19:32] Well, of course, we didn’t have any equipment. And uh, and they helped me with some equipment to get the lift towers up the mountain and build some roads to get it up and all that. And the Willoughbys, they were still operating a mine. And they, they were the only ones that had a bulldozer or a four-wheel drive truck, for example, when the, when the lift arrived. And they just were tremendously helpful. But still we, some of those towers on the Number One lift, we put it together on the ground and then pushed it up by hand.

Judith Gertler [00:20:14] Before you could actually begin building, you needed some financing. Could you tell us about your meeting with the Paepckes and what that was like and how, and where your financing really came from?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:20:29] Well, right at the beginning I did not look for financing, although I was… Mr. Paepcke and I got together while I was still in convalescence, and he told me his ideas about Aspen. He wanted to have some music and a few other things, and I told him that I wanted skiing. And we were, we were, our first, together not quite, uh, enthusiastic because I didn’t know a resort with music, and he did not know any music with skiing. But we were good friends for quite a while. But financing, I didn’t talk too much about financing. I had contact with American Steel and Wire and, uh, believe it or not, I gave them a call. The same people that built the first real chairlifts in, in, in America, in Sun Valley and Baldy Mountain. They appreciated that business because they sold a lot of lifts afterwards. And I called up the main man that I dealt with in Sun Valley, and he said, “Give me a profile, and I will get you a lift.” I said, “Well, I can’t get a profile because nobody here knows, has an instrument to get a profile.” So he sent somebody, and I took him up, showed him exactly where to put the lifts, and between then and the 2nd of October, we had a few telephone calls. He was telling me how far along he was and when he was delivering it, and I got ready for it, for the towers and everything else. And, and the 2nd of October, it arrived on Little Nell on the, on the railroad car.

Judith Gertler [00:22:27] Tell us what year this was?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:22:29] 1946. October 2nd, 1946. And December 2nd is when we opened the lift.

Judith Gertler [00:22:48] It was very fast.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:22:49] Yes.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:22:52] Just in terms of, um, of backing up for a moment, you did at some point, Walter Paepcke did at some point raise money or get some…

Friedl Pfeifer [00:23:01] Yes, oh yes. Very definitely.

Judith Gertler [00:23:02] Can you tell us the story of how you went to visit Walter and Elizabeth on their ranch in Colorado Springs and, and what transpired there, and maybe something we haven’t heard before.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:23:13] Oh yes, I was in Colorado Springs convalescing, and I got a call from, from a guy that I taught to ski in Alta, Utah. And he said that, uh, that a friend of his was, was interested in Aspen, and we should get together because I, I was talking his head off about my resort that I was going to build in Aspen. So we got together, and I took a bus from my camp to his ranch. He had a ranch in between Denver and Colorado Springs. And we got together and got along very nicely.

Judith Gertler [00:24:05] Any particular stories about meeting them for the first time? What, how you saw them or…?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:24:12] Well, yes, there is a little story because, uh, on the telephone he said, he said he was going to send somebody down to the bus station because I took a bus. I didn’t have a car. I was still in the Army. And, uh, and there was a pickup there when I got off the bus, and he sort of came over and he said if I was going to, to the ranch, uh, the name which I can’t think of right now. I said yes, so I went in the bus, I mean, in the pickup. And after a while, he didn’t talk, he didn’t say anything. After a while he said, uh, “What do you know about turkeys?” And I said, “I don’t know anything about turkeys except you eat him all in one day.” Well, I didn’t know why he asked me the question or anything, but it turned out, it turned out that he was sent down there to pick up a Mexican that they hired to take care of the turkeys. They had 20,000 turkeys, uh, out in the field. So I arrived there as the turkey herder.

Judith Gertler [00:25:40] That wasn’t part of your plan to develop a ski…?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:25:43] Uh, no. No, no.

Judith Gertler [00:25:47] At the time that, that the Ski, Skiing Company began, um, what was your role in the Aspen Skiing Company that was formed? Could you…? Let me back up. Could you talk a little bit about the formation of the Aspen Skiing Company and what your role was?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:26:04] That’s a very simple thing. I went to Denver, and I had a lawyer there, which a friend of mine that I met also in Alta, Utah, and I already told him then about Aspen. And after I came out of the, out of the war, I contacted him, and he said he had a lawyer. Uh, Mr. Clark was his name. He had some gold mine somewhere, and he just suggested a lawyer for me. And the first thing I did, form a company, the Aspen Ski Corporation. Very simple.

Judith Gertler [00:26:51] And what position did you have? Did you hold in this company?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:26:54] Uh, uh, I’m not quite clear. I think, I think I made Clark the president, and, uh, uh, I think a treasurer is needed and a secretary or something like that. The lawyer was the secretary, and I was the treasurer.

Judith Gertler [00:27:20] Before you began to build, was, who owned the land that they, who owned Aspen Mountain?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:27:28] Well, as far as I was concerned, they were all delinquent mining claims.

Judith Gertler [00:27:36] Did you need any special permits in order to build? What kind of permits did you need in order to build? Were there any permits necessary?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:27:46] Uh, no. No. Uh, after I started digging up there, the forest rangers said that there was some forest land up there. And we had a very nice conversation in the, in the Forest Service office. It was very small at that time. And he said, he just said, “I think you’d better have a, a permit from us.” And the next day, he said, “Come in tomorrow.” And the next day he gave me a permit.

Judith Gertler [00:28:26] We talked a little bit about the, about the first lift that you put in.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:28:32] Yes.

Judith Gertler [00:28:32] Before you began working on Aspen Mountain, can you tell us what kind of an existing lift or way to get up the mountain? What was there already?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:28:45] Oh, they, the local people, they were very enthusiastic skiers. That was the beauty of the whole thing because they all knew about skiing. And I was dreaming to have a community, a skiing community, not just a few people. And, and I pursued that for quite a while. I had free ski lessons for all, all the people, in particular housewives. And I was absolutely amazed how they took it up. The first day that I announced that, there were 30 housewives coming out to learn to ski, and that was absolutely sunshine. That was beautiful.

Judith Gertler [00:29:28] Friedl, let’s talk about the beginning of the ski school, because that was such an important component of, of Aspen’s skiing industry, skiing life. Who were the first teachers that you were, that you recruited? And can you tell us a little bit about them?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:29:46] Well, in 1946, they opened the lift. It was ’46-’47 winter season, I opened the ski school with two ex-Mountain Division guys, Johnny Litchfield, and Percy Rideout. And that was it. And the first pupil was a lady that skied in Europe. And she heard about this, this effort to be made about skiing in Aspen and came here. And she had a room with somebody. There were no accommodations in Aspen. And in the morning, the three of us flipped a coin. Who is going to teach you that day? And we had a wonderful time, and she had a wonderful time to have three instructors instead of one, because all three of them were there, you know, and then one of us took her up. And besides the boat tow, I put in a little rope tow in the bottom just for beginners too. And she was not a real beginner, but she, she couldn’t handle the boat tow. She was an elderly lady, but a delightful lady. And, and as the winter went on, there were some people from Grand Junction and even Denver. And we started that way. We, we all three were occupied sometimes, we had so many people, about ten. We split them up and just had fun with them.

Judith Gertler [00:31:34] Do you remember what you charged in those days for a lesson?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:31:40] Uh, something like $5.

Judith Gertler [00:31:43] How long, would, a period of time was that?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:31:46] Well, well, until they get tired. It was a daily ticket. And the lady I mentioned, she skied for an hour and then she wanted to rest, and we rested for a cup of coffee and went another half an hour. And then, of course, there were two hours of lunch. And, uh, she had trouble with the rope tow. And one time, uh, we walked up at first, you know, but that was too much for her. So we taught her how to, uh, rope tow, go up with the rope tow. But we didn’t have much success because she wasn’t strong enough. A rope tow, you have to squeeze it, and, and it drags you up there. But, uh, the first time we did it, we said, “All right, now squeeze it,” you know? But she squeezed it, and then we said, “Let go, let go!” because the smoke came out of her gloves.

Judith Gertler [00:32:53] At some point, you recruited more teachers.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:32:56] Oh yes.

Judith Gertler [00:32:56] Can you talk about how that happened, how you did it, and how you sold them on coming to Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:33:01] Well, actually, they came by themselves. They heard about it, and I didn’t have to import anybody. And as things grew, uh, uh, I started contacting people. But that first year, we, we, we were just the three of us, and, and we could take care of it.

Judith Gertler [00:33:29] Where did you go for coffee and lunch during the day when you were skiing?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:33:35] Oh well, the Epicure was already in gear, and that’s where everything took place. All the, the city and county meetings and the whole works. You didn’t go to the courthouse. You went to the Epicure if you wanted to know something about Aspen.

Judith Gertler [00:33:57] We heard a story that Fred Iselin went to Hollywood to let people in Hollywood know about Aspen. Can you tell us a little bit about your recollection of that and how the Hollywood crowd came to Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:34:14] Uh, well, that’s not quite that he went to Hollywood. That’s where I first found him, in Hollywood. But that was in Sun Valley. And I brought him to Sun Valley. And then when I left, I was hoping that he would take over in Sun Valley. I was, uh, having the ski school and the whole ski operation there, but that didn’t work out. So a few years later, I brought him here. But, uh, already, uh, I skied with Gary Cooper in Sun Valley extensively because he had a slight, uh, uh, problem about skiing because he had a bad hip. He fell off a horse and had some steel put in. And then he followed me here because he liked what I was doing. He was the first one that was noticed.

Judith Gertler [00:35:20] Can you talk a little bit about the method that you used to teach?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:35:27] Uh, it was the Arlberg technique that I was, that I taught in Austria, and I had no reason to do any changing.

Judith Gertler [00:35:35] Can you describe it for us? In terms of how you, basically, what the, the basics of the technique was?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:35:48] Well, that’s pretty hard to do. Uh, it’s just a very simple, as simple as it can be. You use your own body weight to make the first turn, and you use… to brake, before you can brake, is a turnover. You, again, use your body weight to put the brakes on by getting into a snowplow position. That’s for a beginner that acts like he was on a huge mountain and scared to death, you know, and that’s the first thing to teach him. To have confidence and control over his speed and everything else. I didn’t concentrate on technique so much. I was always wanting to make sure that they have fun doing it, what they were doing. That was my speech to every instructor that I ever had anything to do with it. If it isn’t fun, don’t do it.

Judith Gertler [00:37:03] When you think back about the ski school, from the time you began until the time you left, what were some of the changes that took place?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:37:13] Well, they took place as time went on, very slowly and naturally. I just had more and more instructors. And I was, I was close to 200 instructors by the time I got through, and they were all very well trained to teach just the one thing and to have fun and, and don’t write techniques so far as, as they did later on. They got the people so confused, they didn’t know if they were going up or down.

Judith Gertler [00:37:59] We also heard that you developed the first sunscreen for, to protect against the sun.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:38:07] Yes. Yes.

Judith Gertler [00:38:08] How did that happen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:38:11] Well, I don’t remember the Austrian firm that worked on it. I know the name: Piz Buin, it was called. The first sun cream, sun shield came out. Sun cream, shield came out. Yes. And I talked about it here. And one of my instructors, a very good instructor, uh, I hate to mention his name because, uh, uh, it’s advertising for him, you see, and I don’t want to do that for nothing. It’s Klaus Obermeyer. He is one of, one of the most successful ski instructors there was on a ski slope. He always had fun. And, and in the ski school, we assigned people to the instructors, but not him. They came running for him.

Judith Gertler [00:39:22] One other question about skiing before we move on a little. How were the ski runs named?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:39:33] Most of them, uh, names from mines. Tourtelotte Park. Bell Mountain was already named. Most of them were mines. There was a mine there, and we just kept on going with it.

Judith Gertler [00:40:00] Before we move on just a little bit, is there anything else that you would like to mention about the early days of skiing, about any people, any stories, anything you’d like to say?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:40:20] Well, it was a delight from the day that I came into this town until I walked out of this town. Delight. Everything. And the main thing was, the main ingredient was that people had so much fun here.

Judith Gertler [00:40:46] That philosophy, your philosophy of people having fun, helped a great deal.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:40:52] Yes, but that’s what it should be.

Judith Gertler [00:40:56] What was happening in the town as the ski industry was building? How did the town keep pace? Or did the town keep pace with the needs…?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:41:11] That’s the whole problem: it didn’t keep pace.

Judith Gertler [00:41:14] What was…? Tell us what happened. Tell us what didn’t happen.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:41:24] It grew too fast and too wild and without a plan. And that was the big thing. Anything that is done without a plan before you start goes astray. That’s my experience. Before you do anything, just the slightest little thing that you do, plan it before you do it. And that was the big…and Walter Paepcke had all kinds of plans, but nobody followed it. I remember well, when they, uh, some people he brought out to make a master plan, and he spent a lot of money for it, and they talked to me, where the skiing was going to advance, and I showed them everything from Buttermilk to, to all the existing lifts possible. And when I saw the plan, they put a yellow dot there, a large one, and not to put any accommodations further away than walking distance. And nobody paid any attention right from the beginning.

Judith Gertler [00:42:44] What time period are you talking about when, when the master plan was originally suggested?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:42:51] It was right away. ’60… ’47, ’48. I think ’48 is when the plan that I’m talking about, and he made a great effort. He knew that it would grow, but nobody else believed it. And I didn’t want any building or anything at all above Durant Street. So I pursued that. I, uh, the county treasurer, Mr. Connors, I asked him if he could get me, uh, all the land, put together up above Durant Street. If he couldn’t, uh, buy it and protect it, you know, to be skied on. And the lodges all be right below Durant Street. And so that’s walking distance to the lift. And, uh, he, he gave me a, he gave me a plan with all the property on there, and it was $24,000 to buy it. So I went to, uh, I obviously didn’t have it. So I went to the Ski Corporation, and I said, “We should buy this,” and gave them my speech, which everybody already was tired to hear me. We should not put any buildings there. We should keep it for skiing into the town and not walking into town. And they said, “Well, no, we don’t buy anything.” Unfortunately, I mentioned, uh, it’s going to grow, and we need some parking space too. And uh, one of the wise guys said, “We are in the ski lift business, not in the parking business.” So that was that for that. I went a little further. And my father-in-law, who was a banker, I told him that I’d like to, uh, buy this property to protect it, by them building on it. I took about five minutes, and he took ten minutes to tell me how stupid it was, that this would never be, uh, a development to need all this property.

Judith Gertler [00:45:24] So that’s the story.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:45:25] That’s the story.

Judith Gertler [00:45:30] Can you talk a little bit about the building and the development of Buttermilk? How that started and what your role was in that?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:45:39] Uh, I tagged that as an expansion from the first day I came into town. That was natural. And the world, I found out, is never expanding east, always west. I didn’t research it. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but anyway, I did, and it’s the same thing. I bought the property out there. I shouldn’t say I bought it, I took it over, and, uh, the guy was kind enough to give me, uh, 20 years to pay for it because I didn’t have any money. But I had tied it down, and I asked the Ski Corporation two years in a row that I need some beginner/intermediate skiing because on Little Nell, you go immediately to something like 38 or 40% slope, and that’s not good for beginners. And that’s all I, that was always my most important thing, to take care of the beginners. They don’t come twice to try it. They only come once. And that’s when you have to addict them to skiing. And the second year it was a no again, “we don’t want to be out of town,” they said, “and we don’t need any more.” So I did it myself, and I needed to do it with Pfister because his property was above my property. And I put a T-Pine first because I couldn’t afford anything else.

Judith Gertler [00:47:30] Do you remember how much the property cost?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:47:35] How much the property cost? That I bought? Oh, I don’t know if I am giving my secrets away here, but I bought 300 acres with 72 head of cows with calves and a hay crop for that year for $64,000. That’s approximately a $200 an acre.

Judith Gertler [00:48:06] Can you tell us about what year that was?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:48:11] Uh, that was in 19–… early 1960s.

Judith Gertler [00:48:19] When did you leave the Aspen Skiing Company, and why did you, why did you leave?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:48:24] Uh, I saw the thing going astray because they put lifts in the wrong place. They put trails in the wrong place. They cut trails in the wrong place, and badly, with straight lines on the side. And I just couldn’t take it anymore because I grew up in a resort that was done with the people, for the people. And here it was done just…over a couple of martinis, they made all the decisions, and I just had enough.

Judith Gertler [00:49:11] And then when did you leave Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:49:15] I left Aspen in ’72. I didn’t leave Aspen in ’72. My body went out. My heart stayed here.

Judith Gertler [00:49:28] And the reason that you left has to do with what you were describing a minute ago?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:49:32] Yes.

Judith Gertler [00:49:33] The town had changed so much. Can you tell us in again, in your own words, why you left? Why your body left Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:49:41] Because I couldn’t watch it anymore. I saw Snowmass being completely murdered by putting housing on the ski slope all over the place. And I was down on my knees to beg them. Don’t touch the slope. Go in the sun. You want to ski and then sit in the sun. But I, nobody budged, they just went right ahead with it. Of course, everybody is wise now, as wise as I was then.

Judith Gertler [00:50:16] Who was in control of the Ski Company at that point? Who was making the decisions? Was there a group?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:50:22] A group of Denver people, yes. And they were playboys, mildly, mildly said. They wanted the playground for themselves.

Judith Gertler [00:50:35] Just a few more questions. Personal questions. You married while you were here, or…?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:50:43] Yes.

Judith Gertler [00:50:44] Can you tell us your wife’s name?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:50:47] Barbara Bohen.

Judith Gertler [00:50:49] Can you tell us in a complete, a complete sentence, please? “My… My wife’s name…”

Friedl Pfeifer [00:50:58] In 1958, I married my wife, Barbara Bohen.

Judith Gertler [00:51:09] And tell us about your children. What their names are and… what their names are.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:51:17] Well, that’s a pretty long story, because I have, I was married twice. First marriage was a Tina, a Toni, and a Peter. And then my second marriage, Barbara had two boys when I met her, delightful boys. And then we had a Chris and Shelley.

Judith Gertler [00:52:01] And where are you living now, Friedl?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:52:04] I’m living a little bit here and there. In the summer, I’m in Montana, delightful state. The only state in the world is underpopulated. Beautiful mountains. As a matter of fact, when I retired, we debated. My wife would rather go east. She was a well-educated lady, and I just, uh, the only thing I told her, that I couldn’t live without mountains. So I went looking for a mountain place. And when I found it, she was delighted. And the best time of her life was in Montana.

Judith Gertler [00:53:01] I have two more questions. The first is: what are you most proud of when you think about the impact that you had on Aspen?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:53:17] Well, I’m just very proud and delighted that I was part of it. I was not the only thing, but I was part of it and the way it worked out. And I’m not very happy the way it’s all run now. It’s, it’s overrun really, it’s overpopulated. And we know, we know about overpopulation. In the, in the wild. It takes care of itself. If there’s too much of anything, there’s usually some sickness comes along and regulate the masses. With the human being, they’re too smart to do that. But it’s still a delightful place. And the part God made, thanks God, hasn’t changed. So it’s a delightful place, and I’m spending more and more time here, and I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m going to be buried here.

Judith Gertler [00:54:31] And the last question I have is: what do you think Aspen’s impact on you has been?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:54:40] On me? Well, I look at it as a tremendous success. The ski end of it. But obviously, uh, uh, people go away on vacations from the city, uh, one of the main things is to get out of the traffic. Well, of course, we know the rest of the story, he said.

Judith Gertler [00:55:22] It’s time to close, and I’m wondering if there’s anything that I haven’t asked you or anything that else that you’d like to add.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:55:32] I could take, I could take a good half a day to tell some, some delightful stories, you know, but they, uh, they’re my stories, and they and, uh, uh, everybody that knows me, uh, can participate, but generally, it’d be much too long a story, and I would actually have some coaching, and I…

Judith Gertler [00:56:01] Maybe someday we can, we can do that. Maybe someday you could come back and tell us some stories. Some more stories.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:56:07] I’m trying to put it down on paper, called a book, and I wish I’d never started it.

Judith Gertler [00:56:15] Excuse me. Just one minute.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:56:16] I have a question. Friedl, I have a question. I wanted to know how you became famous in skiing. I heard you won a famous race in Austria.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:56:26] Uh, all of them. Not, not famous. All of them.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:56:29] Well, tell, tell us a little about that.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:56:31] Well, there’s a little story to it. You see, uh, in 1936, the FIS, the Fédération Internationale de Ski, which is much too long already in, in, in being. They have to be, they have to be changed. Uh, they changed us from, uh, ski instructors being professionals and can’t participate in world championship and all that. Well, we had some ski racing going there that were much more important than Olympic races. And, and the biggest one was the Kandahar in, in Sankt Anton. And I won that in 1937. And that put me on the map. The world map.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:57:32] Now, was that a race that you took a different route from everyone else?

Friedl Pfeifer [00:57:35] Uh, no, that was another race. That was the Hahnenkamm in Kitzbühel. I found a route…you see, at that time…and now they have gates to dance, you know, or try to create a dance. It didn’t work, but we had only two gates, the starting gate and the finishing gate. And you’re on your own in between. And that’s the better part of winning a downhill, not being led down by the nose.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:58:15] And so you said you won all of them. Say that again. You won all the races there.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:58:20] Uh, just about, yes.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:58:22] Tell us in a sentence about this. I’d like to hear in your words this, about winning all the races.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:58:30] Well, I have, uh, a world medal from the FIS in Garmisch, uh, not Garmisch… uh, Chamonix, France. Uh, the, the, the Kandahar is the biggest thing. And all the races around it, I won every one of them, one time or another. But that was not a big deal, except the Kandahar. And the Kandahar was the biggest race because there were no restrictions. Everybody could enter it. But they made restrictions for the FIS because the ski instructors, more racers, more racers were ski instructors. So they killed that right there.

Judith Gertler [00:59:16] Friedl, I’m going to say thank you for sharing this with us. And thank you for coming to Aspen and beginning all of this. We’ve all benefited greatly.

Friedl Pfeifer [00:59:26] Well, you’re very welcome. And I hope you have as much fun. I don’t think you can, but I hope you have a lot of fun being here.

Judith Gertler [00:59:36] Thank you.

Greg Poschman (camera) [00:59:38] Great. Thank you.