Video Interview: Frank & John Dolinsek

Roaring Fork Veterans History Project

Frank Dolinsek

10th Mountain Division WWII/Private First Class, 1943-1946

John Dolinsek

U.S. Navy WWII/Seaman First Class, 1944-1946

Interview conducted by: Ron Langer

At GrassRoots Community TV, Aspen, Colorado

MR. LANGER:  This is Ron Langer for GrassRoots TV, Aspen, Colorado.  I’m interviewing, this morning, two long time residents of Aspen; two brothers who were born here and lived here all their lives.

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: I was born in Grand Junction.
2. LANGER: Okay.  Born in Grand Junction.

And you were born here?

1. JOHN DOLINSEK: I was born here.
2. LANGER: Okay.
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: All the rest of our family was born here.
4. LANGER: Okay.  How did that happen that you were born in Grand Junction?
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, my dad had — got a job down there and they moved down there but the job didn’t pan out so he moved back and I was born in between the move.
6. LANGER: Okay.  So, the gentleman who just spoke is Frank J. Dolinsek, D-o-l-i-n-s-e-k, who lives at 619 South Monarch Street Aspen, Colorado.  Born in Grand Junction on August 31, 1923, and served in World War II with the 10th Mountain Division with the rank of Private First Class.

And the gentleman at my right is John Dolinsek who was born in Aspen, Colorado on August 25, 1925.  Served in World War II in the United States Navy on the aircraft carrier Marcus Island, CVE-77 and achieved the rank of Seaman First Class.

So, I’m really curious to hear about what things were like here in Aspen in the 1920’s and 30’s when you guys were growing up here.

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, it was nice and quiet.
2. LANGER: Just like today.
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  You could go any place you want.  We used to go fishing more in the evenings and walking.  We hiked to the hills; we’ve climbed every mountain around here.
4. LANGER: So, was it just the two of you or did you have other brothers and sisters?
5. JOHN DOLINSEK: No, we’ve got three sisters.
6. FRANK DOLINSEK: We’ve got three sisters.
7. LANGER: Three sisters.
8. FRANK DOLINSEK: Josephine, Jenny, and Nellie.  Nellie was the oldest.  Josephine was next.  I come in the middle.  Then Jenny was between me and John.
9. LANGER: And so, John, you’re the baby.
10. JOHN DOLINSEK: I was the baby.  Still the baby.
11. LANGER: Still the baby, okay.  So things were quiet.  About how many people were living in Aspen at that point?
12. FRANK DOLINSEK: Oh, about 750.
13. LANGER: And how long did it take to get from Aspen to say, Grand Junction?
14. JOHN DOLINSEK: If you got on the train, the Galloping Goose, it took one day to get to Glenwood.  Then you’ve have to stay in Glenwood and catch the train from Denver going west to Grand Junction.  So it took two days.

If you were going to Leadville it’d take three days because you’d go to Glenwood, then you’ve have to go up to Dot Zero and then you’ve have to wait for the train that came up from Salida.  So the only eye doctor was in Leadville, so if you had to go to an eye doctor it took a week.

So people gripe about a ten minute wait to get across Maroon Creek Bridge.

1. LANGER: And you mentioned the train.  Were there roads in and out of Aspen at that point?
2. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
3. LANGER: Was 82 still —
4. JOHN DOLINSEK: Eight-two was pretty much the old highway.
5. LANGER: Yeah, okay.  Did you have a car when you were growing up?
6. JOHN DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
7. LANGER: So you could take the car to Grand Junction or to Denver.
8. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
9. JOHN DOLINSEK: But they were on — it was an open aired Star, didn’t have a heater.  The only heat you could get would be convection from the engine.
10. FRANK DOLINSEK: It was a 1923 touring.
11. LANGER: And what kind of a car was it?
12. JOHN DOLINSEK: Touring.
13. FRANK DOLINSEK: It had a canvas top.
14. LANGER: Yeah, but what was the brand; what was the make?
15. JOHN DOLINSEK: Star.
16. FRANK DOLINSEK: Star.
17. LANGER: Star.  A 1923 Star.  And how long did you have that vehicle?
18. JOHN DOLINSEK: Clear after the War.
19. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, it was after the War.  We sold it to — what was the school teacher’s name, Smith?  His son took it over to going to college in Kansas.  He drove it until he graduated.  I guess he’s still got it.
20. LANGER: Was there any skiing being done around here when you were growing up?
21. JOHN DOLINSEK: Only with the —
22. FRANK DOLINSEK: What we’d do.
23. JOHN DOLINSEK: — the individuals done.  There was no ski club or ski courses.  Most of the kids that lived on that end of town skied the cow paths because Begley had a dairy and he had that all fenced in around the base of Aspen Mountain.  And he turned his cows loose in the summer time.  And of course, you know, they’ll eat the new growing brush and stuff like that.  So they made trails and we’d ski down them in the winter time — through them trails.
24. LANGER: What kind of skis and boots and bindings were you using?
25. JOHN DOLINSEK: Anything you could find.
26. FRANK DOLINSEK: We kids used to make our own.
27. JOHN DOLINSEK: We’d take — all week when Ma would do her laundry, she’d have to boil the water on the stove and we’d get that hot water and soak the skis in it.  And then bend them.  You’d start out with a board in like that, and then you’d get it good and wet and bend it as far as you could easy and stop.  And then get some more hot water, boiling hot water maybe the next day and bend it just a little bit more.
28. LANGER: So they were made out of —
29. JOHN DOLINSEK: Planning boards — boards.  Boards out of houses that we — you know siding and —
30. LANGER: No kidding.  And what did you use then for bindings?
31. JOHN DOLINSEK: Nothing.
32. FRANK DOLINSEK: Except a rubber band.
33. JOHN DOLINSEK: Inner tube.
34. FRANK DOLINSEK: We had a regular toe strap that we nailed to the ski.  And then we’d go out and get the old shoes and cut the straps to make the toe straps.  And then we used the rubber band that went around the heel and under the toe.  Didn’t help — didn’t hold the skis very well because —
35. JOHN DOLINSEK: It kept the skis on your feet.
36. FRANK DOLINSEK: It kept the skis on your feet.
37. LANGER: And I guess you — you’d have to take the skis off and tromp up the hill in your boots.
38. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
39. LANGER: Because there were no lifts at that point.
40. JOHN DOLINSEK: There wasn’t no ski hill either.  It wasn’t until after World War II that — well, actually —
41. FRANK DOLINSEK: ’36.
42. JOHN DOLINSEK: Andre Roch came here in ’36.
43. LANGER: Who was that?
44. JOHN DOLINSEK: Andre Roch.
45. LANGER: Andre Roch, uh-huh.
46. JOHN DOLINSEK: And he laid out, with Frank Willoughby and Fred Willoughby, the original Roch Run which doesn’t really exist anymore.
47. LANGER: And when was that?
48. FRANK DOLINSEK: About ’35, ’36.
49. JOHN DOLINSEK: It had to be in ’35, I guess,   because the German ski team came here.
50. FRANK DOLINSEK: Because we cut — we helped cut the old Roch Run in ’36.  Well, part of ’35 and ’36.
51. JOHN DOLINSEK: We took and — they cut the trees and we’d cut the trees and pull them behind us down the hill for our own firewood for the winter.
52. LANGER: And that was the — that was the first actual run that was created on Aspen Mountain.
53. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
54. FRANK DOLINSEK: Roch Run.
55. LANGER: And you said the German Ski Team came here in ’36?
56. FRANK DOLINSEK: Otto Schneibs.
57. LANGER: Was that to train for —
58. JOHN DOLINSEK: I don’t know what they came — their intentions were.
59. LANGER: I was thinking it was kind of a sensitive time for the German Team to be coming over here.
60. JOHN DOLINSEK: Well, actually, you know, nobody really knew what was going on at that particular time.  So we — course they — yeah, they did invade countries in Europe.
61. LANGER: Right.
62. JOHN DOLINSEK: But nobody thought anything that there would — it would escalate to where we’d have a World War.  And the German’s really didn’t come in the War until after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.
63. LANGER: 1941.  But certainly the war in Europe was starting in —
64. JOHN DOLINSEK: It was going good.
65. LANGER: — in 19 — right.  Well, in ’36 it was pretty clear that that was going to be happening.  Did you have much interaction with the German skiers?
66. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
67. JOHN DOLINSEK: No.
68. LANGER: And they were using much more advanced equipment than what you were using.
69. JOHN DOLINSEK: Oh, yeah.
70. FRANK DOLINSEK: Ski bindings, ski boots which we didn’t have.  Course, I guess we could have if we’d had the money to buy it.
71. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah, but you’d have to go back east to buy them.  Because there was no such thing out here in the west.
72. LANGER: We’re getting some noise from back there.  Is there anything that you can do about that?

So, you were also involved later on in developing the — the ski industry here in Aspen.  So that was 1936, first ski run —

1. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
2. LANGER: — was built here.  What was the next development and —
3. JOHN DOLINSEK: The boat tow.
4. LANGER: It was what?
5. JOHN DOLINSEK: Boat tows.
6. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, the boat tows that took you from the bottom of the hills, yeah.  We used to call  “second road” — the second road on the mountain that goes up to the upper Durant or —
7. LANGER: And so that was a rope tow?
8. JOHN DOLINSEK: No, a boat tow.
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: It was a boat tow.
10. LANGER: Boat tow.  I don’t know what a boat tow is.
11. JOHN DOLINSEK: It was homemade.  It was just like a big sled; actually like a toboggan would have been.
12. LANGER: Oh, okay.
13. JOHN DOLINSEK: In that you drop your skis in the center of it and you sat on the edge of it, like that.  And you would be sitting there and your feet would be on the skis.  And the cable would come in here.  Well, in order to go over these roads, you had to leave slack in the cable.  So you had to be careful, hang on to that cable because it would go up —
14. LANGER: That sounds dangerous.
15. JOHN DOLINSEK: It might have been dangerous but we thought it was fun.  And the first two guys on the toboggan had to do the guiding because it would want to wander, you know.  And everybody leaned whatever way they says.
16. LANGER: Okay.  And what happened — what came after that — after the boat tow?
17. JOHN DOLINSEK: After the boat tow?
18. LANGER: Yeah.
19. JOHN DOLINSEK: Came the Lift Number One.
20. FRANK DOLINSEK: The old Number One Lift.  That was after the War.
21. LANGER: Okay.  So that wasn’t until after the War.
22. FRANK DOLINSEK: ’46.
23. LANGER: And before we get into your war experience, since we’re on the topic of the development of the development of the ski area, let’s just stay with that for the minute.  So, after the War you both came back here to Aspen and what was your involvement in the development of skiing at that point?
24. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, I was hired by Frank Willoughby and he was going to survey out the lift line.  And that was in May of ’45 I think it was — no ’46.  The spring of ’46.  And him and I surveyed out the lift line for Number One.  And then we went and surveyed the line that went from the Midway — if you know where Midway was up to the Sundeck, or top of what they call the Ajax Mountain which was that little knoll.  And we surveyed that and cut it out.

And then in the summertime we start cutting the lift line so that American Steel came in and they took all of our graduations all the way up the hill and built the lift towers to correspond to the curvature of the hill.

1. LANGER: Yes.
2. JOHN DOLINSEK: And Heron Engineer’s built the one from the Midway up.
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: Heron Engineers build both of them.  American Steel and Wire built the lifts — Number One Lift.
4. JOHN DOLINSEK: They done all the engineering on it.
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: And Bob Heron, who was also in the 10th Mountain, and he built the lift over there to haul the stuff up from the Valley up to the top of Riva Ridge.  And he was the big shot that took care of the — how everything was supposed to be built; the concrete, the holes dug for the concrete and how deep they had to be and so forth.
6. LANGER: Kind of the construction manager.
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: He was like — yeah, yeah he was the manager.
8. JOHN DOLINSEK: Keep in mind that that Number One Lift they were scared to death when they hit Turtolotte Park  because you’re about 100 feet above the ground.  Those old wheels that carried just looked like they were going to fall off.
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: The lift that Heron built was built off of the Park Tunnel Tram.  He got all the wheels and mechanisms off of it and it had cables and he used them for — to cut the costs down because the Ski Corporation — well, it was — what did they call it then — the mining something.  I can’t think of the name now.  It wasn’t called the Ski Corporation at the time.  And they used the stuff for the Heron’s Number Two lift off of the Park Tunnel Tram.  And it saved them money.
10. LANGER: What was that tram?  Where did it go initially?
11. FRANK DOLINSEK: The Park Tunnel?
12. LANGER: Yeah.
13. FRANK DOLINSEK: It went from the Park Tunnel which is on the other side — Castle Creek Side, came over the hill and where the Ski Corp. is building that new lodge and stuff —
14. LANGER: Uh-huh.
15. FRANK DOLINSEK: — they had a tram tower down there.  I don’t know if you noticed it when they had it for living quarters, condos, before they tore it down.
16. LANGER: Was it originally built for mining?
17. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
18. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.  There were two of them; one from the Durant and one from Park Tunnel; they had three.
19. FRANK DOLINSEK: Three trams.
20. LANGER: Okay.  Well, let’s now back up a little bit to — to your military experience.

Frank, you’re the older of the two of you by about five years and what year did you graduate from high school?

43. FRANK DOLINSEK: ’43.
44. LANGER: In ’43.  Okay.  And did you — were you drafted then or did you —
45. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, I was drafted.
46. LANGER: Drafted right after high school graduation?
47. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  Yeah, there was three of us.
48. LANGER: Uh-huh.
49. FRANK DOLINSEK: Frank Loushin and Stan Herwick and I were all drafted, and we went to Fort Logan.
50. LANGER: Uh-huh.
51. FRANK DOLINSEK: And that’s where there was the induction base.
52. LANGER: Yes.  Uh-huh.  And then where were you sent for basic training?
53. FRANK DOLINSEK: Basic training, I was sent to Camp Roberts, California, June 7th, 1943.
54. LANGER: Uh-huh.
55. FRANK DOLINSEK: And I spent six weeks at Camp Roberts with the 576, which was the big five — 155 millimeter guns.
56. LANGER: Uh-huh.  The —
57. FRANK DOLINSEK: Big shells —
58. LANGER: Yeah.  Uh-huh.
59. FRANK DOLINSEK:  — not the little ones.  And in October, I believe it was, they —
60. LANGER: Uh-huh.
61. FRANK DOLINSEK: — says we — they’re starting up a new command over at Camp Hale and we need you three fellows — or you and there was a kid from Grand Junction and another one from Glenwood, and he says you’s are from Aspen, Colorado, so we’ll send you to Camp Hale, so pack up your gear, you’ll leave in the morning —
62. LANGER: Uh-huh.
63. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and so that’s what we done.
64. LANGER: What — did they ask you if you had ski or mountain skills or they —
65. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well —
66. LANGER: — just decided you were from here so —
67. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, they figured that.
68. LANGER: So they — you would have those?
69. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
70. LANGER: Uh-huh.
71. FRANK DOLINSEK: But when I got to Camp Hale, I didn’t get to ski.  They gave me a pair of those bear paw snowshoes —
72. LANGER: Uh-huh.
73. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and that’s what I had.  I could’ve transferred into the 86th, the 85th, or the 87th —
74. LANGER: Uh-huh.
75. FRANK DOLINSEK: — but I didn’t.  I was with the B10th AT&T.  That was anti-aircraft and anti-tank, but —
76. LANGER: B10?
77. FRANK DOLINSEK: B10.
78. LANGER: AT&T?
79. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
80. LANGER: What does that stand for?
81. FRANK DOLINSEK: That was — the B was my unit number —
82. LANGER: Okay.
83. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and the 10th was the number that they’d call for AT&T.
84. LANGER: And AT&T is?
85. FRANK DOLINSEK: Anti-tank, anti-aircraft.
86. LANGER: Oh, okay.  Anti-tank, anti-aircraft.  Okay.  Huh.  So you weren’t with the 85th, 85th, or 87th —
87. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
88. LANGER: — regiments?
89. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
90. LANGER: No.  Okay.  And you then accompanied those and were responsibility for anti-tank and anti-aircraft —
91. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
92. LANGER: — to protect them?
93. FRANK DOLINSEK: That’s right.
94. LANGER: I see.  Okay.
95. FRANK DOLINSEK: But when we got over there, we didn’t have no tanks there to fight, so — or no air — very few aircraft, so we ended up with infantry —
96. LANGER: Uh-huh.
97. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and we were — could go to either one of the different divisions —
98. LANGER: Uh-huh.
99. FRANK DOLINSEK: — 87th, 86th, and 85th —
100. LANGER: Uh-huh.
101. FRANK DOLINSEK: — whichever one was tied down, we went in and helped get them out.
102. LANGER: So they used you, more or less, as reserve infantry?
103. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
104. LANGER: Yeah.  Okay.  When did you go over to Europe?
105. FRANK DOLINSEK: We went over a week before Christmas.
106. LANGER: In ’40 —
107. FRANK DOLINSEK: — three.
108. LANGER: — three, okay.  Yeah.  What do you remember of what Camp Hale was like at that time?
109. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, it was cold.
110. LANGER: Uh-huh.
111. FRANK DOLINSEK: It was nice, but it was a — we didn’t spend much time inside the barracks.  We spent most of our time sleeping out in the different part of the mountains.
112. LANGER: Uh-huh.
113. FRANK DOLINSEK: So that was about it.
114. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And as someone who had grown up here, did they use your skills at all for training the other troops?
115. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.  They had snowshoers that trained us.
116. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Yeah.  Had you used snowshoes before?
117. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
118. LANGER: Uh-huh.
119. FRANK DOLINSEK: I was always — used skis.
120. LANGER: Always skis, yeah, okay.  So okay.  So you were sent overseas toward the end of ’43 —
121. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
122. LANGER: — and —
123. FRANK DOLINSEK: Let’s see.  No.  Yeah, ’43, ’44.  ’44.
124. LANGER: Toward the end of ’44.
125. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, ’44.
126. LANGER: Okay.  And —
127. FRANK DOLINSEK: Because —
128. LANGER: — where did you disembark?
129. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, we — we’ll go back a ways.
130. LANGER: Yeah.
131. FRANK DOLINSEK: We went to Camp Swift, Texas —
132. LANGER: Uh-huh.
133. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and trained down there in the heat and the sand.
134. LANGER: Uh-huh.
135. FRANK DOLINSEK: And then we went from Camp Swift, Texas, to Newport News, Virginia.  And there we were trained to embark and disembark off of the big ships, you know —
136. LANGER: Uh-huh.
137. FRANK DOLINSEK: — that we were going to sail on with full-filled pack and everything.
138. LANGER: Uh-huh.
139. FRANK DOLINSEK: And then we sailed there — it was upon the General Meigs —
140. LANGER: General Meigs —
141. FRANK DOLINSEK: Meigs was a ship that we sailed on.
142. LANGER: M-i-g-g-s?
143. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  And it was one of the — that Kaiser built.  It was a cement bottom —
144. LANGER: Okay.
145. FRANK DOLINSEK: — outfit and —
146. LANGER: A Liberty ship?
147. FRANK DOLINSEK: A Liberty ship.
148. LANGER: Yeah.
149. FRANK DOLINSEK: And we sailed out of Newport News.  It would be about what — 21st of December and we landed in Naples, Italy —
150. LANGER: Uh-huh.
151. FRANK DOLINSEK: — on the 25th.
152. LANGER: Uh-huh.  I’ve heard that those ships weren’t the most stable.
153. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, they got us over there, but —
154. LANGER: Uh-huh.  But a lot of bounding around.
155. FRANK DOLINSEK: They were — yeah.  Yeah.
156. LANGER: Yeah.
157. FRANK DOLINSEK: I got sick.  We did pretty good for the first three days —
158. LANGER: Uh-huh.
159. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and then they gave us mutton  —
160. LANGER: Uh-huh.
     MR. FRANK DOLINSEK:  — and I think that started it.  Then I was sick most of the way over.
161. LANGER: Uh-huh.
162. FRANK DOLINSEK: But we landed at Naples, Italy and from there we went to our station or what do you call it, place where we’d be until they called us.
163. LANGER: Uh-huh.
164. FRANK DOLINSEK: And then —
165. LANGER: And where was that?
166. FRANK DOLINSEK: Italy.
167. LANGER: Uh-huh.  But where —
168. FRANK DOLINSEK: I for —
169. LANGER: Do you recall?
170. FRANK DOLINSEK: I can’t recall the name right now.
171. LANGER: Uh-huh.  But was that up —
172. FRANK DOLINSEK: Going north.
173. LANGER: In the Po Valley?
174. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.  It’s a way south.  Naples, Italy, is right at the boot —
175. LANGER: Right.
176. FRANK DOLINSEK: — of Italy.  So we went from there up to fight our way up to Rome and from Rome on.  We started to go up from Rome, Italy, and we were called back.
177. LANGER: Oh.
178. FRANK DOLINSEK: My outfit was called back and we were put with the British 6th — no, the British 8th, and we — they says we have to go to Trieste, Yugoslavia.  And we went with them to Trieste, Yugoslavia, for two weeks.  What for?  I don’t know.
179. LANGER: Uh-huh.
180. FRANK DOLINSEK: But I guess —
181. LANGER: This was the whole division or just —
182. FRANK DOLINSEK: Just —
183. LANGER: — your anti-tank —
184. FRANK DOLINSEK: Our —
185. LANGER: — anti —
186. FRANK DOLINSEK: Anti-tank.
187. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Yeah.
188. FRANK DOLINSEK: Company A and Company B.
189. LANGER: Right.
190. FRANK DOLINSEK: And we went to Trieste, Italy, for two weeks just patrolling and that’s all.
191. LANGER: Uh-huh.
192. FRANK DOLINSEK: But I guess they thought the Germans were going to come back through that way.
193. LANGER: Uh-huh.
194. FRANK DOLINSEK: But they — we didn’t see any Germans, so they sent us back —
195. LANGER: Uh-huh.
196. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and we went to a rest area, which I forgot the name, too —
197. LANGER: Uh-huh.
198. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and we spent two weeks there to rest up, and then we went on up to Mount Belvedere, and we fought from there on up.
199. LANGER: Uh-huh.  So that’s where you rejoined the 10th Mountain —
200. FRANK DOLINSEK: That’s where we —
201. LANGER: — at Mount —
202. FRANK DOLINSEK: — at Belvedere —
203. LANGER: — Belvedere?
204. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  No.  We rejoined the 10th Mountain at the rest area.
205. LANGER: At the rest area.  Uh-huh.
206. FRANK DOLINSEK: We were actually never out of the 10th Mountain.  We were always with the 10th —
207. LANGER: Uh-huh.
208. FRANK DOLINSEK: — but —
209. LANGER: But you were detached for —
210. FRANK DOLINSEK: But we were —
211. LANGER: — two weeks?
212. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, we were detached for two weeks.
213. LANGER: Right.  Yeah.  So when was your first combat?
214. FRANK DOLINSEK: On Belvedere.
215. LANGER: On Belvedere.  Uh-huh.  And would you tell us about that?
216. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, mostly, no.  It’s just rough.
217. LANGER: It was just rough?
218. FRANK DOLINSEK: It was just rough.
219. LANGER: Uh-huh.
220. FRANK DOLINSEK: And it — on Belvedere it rained and that — and we had to climb the mountain.  And I was in charge of a gun outfit, a — the 75.  I don’t know if you remember the 75 Pack Howitzers of the 10th Mountains?
221. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Okay.
222. FRANK DOLINSEK: And they had — they got to ride and I — since I was head of them, I had to go up the steep part of the mountain and they took the road with a Jeep and a gun.
223. LANGER: Uh-huh.
224. FRANK DOLINSEK: And we can say that that’s really gooey mud.  You’d take one step forward and go back two.  It was slick all the way up.  And then we got up onto the road.  Then we went back into Livorno, which is about top of Mount Belvedere.
225. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Okay.  And —
226. FRANK DOLINSEK: And then —
227. LANGER: — you had to fight your way up?
228. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  We fought our way up.
229. LANGER: Right.
230. FRANK DOLINSEK: It was no — it wasn’t very easy fighting and trying to stand up, so —
231. LANGER: It — you say it was an easy —
232. FRANK DOLINSEK: Wasn’t easy.
233. LANGER: Was not?
234. FRANK DOLINSEK: no.
235. LANGER: No.  It never is fighting —
236. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
237. LANGER: — uphill.
238. FRANK DOLINSEK: Trying to keep your gun clean and everything at —
239. LANGER: Uh-huh.
240. FRANK DOLINSEK: — the same time.
241. LANGER: Yeah.  And that was early ’45?  What month?
242. FRANK DOLINSEK: Early — yeah.  Early ’45.
243. LANGER: Uh-huh.  So maybe January, February?
244. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, around in there.
245. LANGER: Yeah.  Okay.
246. FRANK DOLINSEK: Because in March, I got the Bronze Star —
247. LANGER: Uh-huh.
248. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and the Oak leaf Cluster —
249. LANGER: Okay.  And —
250. FRANK DOLINSEK: — for —
251. LANGER: Let’s show the Bronze Star —
252. FRANK DOLINSEK: And the Oak Leaf Cluster is that little brass thing.
253. LANGER: Okay.  This is the Bronze Star and this is the Oak Leaf Cluster —
254. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
255. LANGER: — which indicates valor, and this  —
256. FRANK DOLINSEK:  Combat Infantry.
257. LANGER: — is the Combat Infantry Badge.

So tell us —

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: The — that was gotten at Pietra Colora.
2. LANGER: Pietra Colora, that was where you received the —
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
4. LANGER: — the Bronze Star?
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  Yeah.  I think it was March 11th, I believe it was.
6. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Let me just read the citation and then I’d like to hear a little bit more about the —
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: I’m not sure what you got.
8. LANGER: Let’s see.  This is April —
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: Pietra Colora —
10. LANGER: — 4th —
11. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
12. LANGER: It —
13. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.  See, March comes before April.
14. LANGER: Well, we —
15. FRANK DOLINSEK: Some of these —
16. LANGER: — had an April 11th —
17. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, yeah.  April 11th.  Uh-huh.
18. LANGER: And we have April 4th.
19. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  April 4th I got the Bronze Star and the Oak Leaf Cluster.
20. LANGER: Okay.  And —
21. FRANK DOLINSEK: And on the 11th I got the — I was supposed to get Oak Leaf Cluster that goes with the Bronze Star.
22. LANGER: So this is — actually, it’s dated 25 March, 1945.
23. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
24. LANGER: And it says, “Frank J. L. Dolinger (sic)” —
25. FRANK DOLINSEK: Dolinsek.
26. LANGER: — “Dolinsek, Private First Class, Infantry, United States Army, for meritorious service in combat on 4 March, 1945” —
27. FRANK DOLINSEK: That’s right.
28. LANGER: — “near Pietra Colora, Italy.  Entered the military service from Aspen, Colorado.”

So tell us about this battle at Pietra Colora and why you were given the Bronze Star.

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, I was the head of my gun company and so I led them in — into the battle, and it — we were on a hillside and there was a big farmhouse over the hill, and we would — had to go and blow that house — farmhouse up by shooting at it.  And the Germans were shooting back, so — and I kept my men so that they didn’t get hurt.  And there were five of us and out of five of us we never — not — neither one of us ever got wounded —
2. LANGER: Uh-huh.
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: — during the whole battle that I had them with me.  And that lasted three days.
4. LANGER: Uh-huh.
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: And that was it.  We were moved off of there by — and a Brazilian Army took over where we were and we went back in to fighting again, and that’s — went over in Neuvoletti.
6. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And the Neuvoletti —
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: Was the 11th.
8. LANGER: Mount Neuvoletti, Italy, and this is dated 19 May, 1945, the citation is, and — and the citation reads, “Frank J. L. Dolinsek, Private First Class, Infantry, 10th Mountain Division, Antitank Battalion at United States Army for heroic achievement in action on 11 April, 1945, near Mount Neuvoletti, Italy, entered military service from Aspen, Colorado.”

So this is Oakleaf Cluster to the Bronze —

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
2. LANGER: — Star?
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
4. LANGER: And explain what happened on Mount Neuvoletti.
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, Mount Neuvoletti, it was a town —
6. LANGER: Uh-huh.
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: — on the mountain, and I’m like — I don’t know if you remember George Tekouchic.  We used to call him Buttons.
8. LANGER: No.
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: He just passed away here, oh, about a year ago.  And he would always say, “Frank, you and I have to turn the lights in Mount Neuvoletti.”  And that’s — that was a town, so we turned the lights on for those Italians that stood there.
10. LANGER: Uh-huh.
11. FRANK DOLINSEK: We didn’t turn them on.  We fought for them, but that was it.
12. LANGER: Uh-huh.
13. FRANK DOLINSEK: And he’d always say that to me.
14. LANGER: Uh-huh.  When he said turn the light on, you were the first fire?
15. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  Yeah.
16. LANGER: Uh-huh.
17. FRANK DOLINSEK: We were the first ones in there.
18. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Were —
19. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
20. LANGER: — you again with that 75 Howitzer?
21. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yes.
22. LANGER: Uh-huh.
23. FRANK DOLINSEK: The same men.
24. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And the same men?
25. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
26. LANGER: Okay.
27. FRANK DOLINSEK: Besides what 80 — he — George was in the 87th, so we met up there in Mount Neuvoletti.
28. LANGER: Uh-huh.
29. FRANK DOLINSEK: And there we fought in to the

Po Valley.

1. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And were you involved in any actions after that?
2. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yes.
3. LANGER: Uh-huh.
4. FRANK DOLINSEK: All the way across Po Valley we would — we saved — help save the bridge that — I think I had a picture in there —
5. LANGER: Uh-huh.
6. FRANK DOLINSEK: — that went across the Po River.  And the Germans had it all booby trapped, but we happened to get them by surprise before they can blow it up, and we were the first ones across the Po River.
7. LANGER: Uh-huh.
8. FRANK DOLINSEK: And from there we went on up to Lake Garda, across the Lake Garda up in to Austria, and up in to where Mussolini had his big law — hotel or whatever you want to call it.
9. LANGER: Uh-huh.  His villa —
10. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
11. LANGER: — up there.
12. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah, his villa.  Yeah.
13. LANGER: Uh-huh.
14. FRANK DOLINSEK: And we were there for a while and then we came back to Lake Garda and there was a picture in the  — that bunch of pictures that I showed you —
15. LANGER: Uh-huh.
16. FRANK DOLINSEK: — where we got off of this barge, this friend of mine that was in the — with me on the — all this trip, he was sitting down on the bank reading a newspaper that says, “The war is over.”  So that’s as far as we went to —
17. LANGER: Uh-huh.
18. FRANK DOLINSEK: — fighting up there.  They —
19. LANGER: Go ahead.
20. FRANK DOLINSEK: Go ahead and say what —
21. LANGER: Yeah.  So after V-E Day, what happened to the 10th Mountain Division?
22. FRANK DOLINSEK: The 10th Mountain, we went to Florence, Italy —
23. LANGER: Uh-huh.
24. FRANK DOLINSEK: — which was a debarkation place to send us back to the States.  Well, we didn’t go back to the States.  We were on our way to Panama Canal when they says the war with Japan was over.
25. LANGER: Uh-huh.
26. FRANK DOLINSEK: So —
27. LANGER: So they were sending you to the Pacific for the —
28. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
29. LANGER: — invasion of Japan?
30. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  We were going to be the — one of the head ones to go invade Japan.
31. LANGER: Uh-huh.
32. FRANK DOLINSEK: So they turned us around and sent us back to Newport News.  And from there they sent us to Fort Logan and we were discharged out of there —
33. LANGER: Uh-huh.
34. FRANK DOLINSEK: — January 18th, 1946.
35. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Anything else that you want to share with us about your time in Europe?
36. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well, get to — got to see a lot of place — some of the places.  We got — take a little vacation when we went to rest camp and they’d let us go wherever we wanted, so we’d go to Venice, Italy, or which is — what’s the other one — has the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
37. LANGER: Pisa?  Uh-huh.
38. FRANK DOLINSEK: We went there.
39. LANGER: Uh-huh.
40. FRANK DOLINSEK: So we got to see a quite a bit of Italy that way.
41. LANGER: Yeah.
42. FRANK DOLINSEK: That’s about it.
43. LANGER: Yeah.  There was some other photographs in that bunch, which we’ll get on camera after the interview, of some people strung up.  What —
44. FRANK DOLINSEK: Oh, those.
45. LANGER: What is that?
46. FRANK DOLINSEK: Those were when they caught Mussolini in his palace —
47. LANGER: Yeah.
48. FRANK DOLINSEK: I believe it was in Milano —
49. LANGER: Uh-huh.
50. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and those were his guards and the — what do you call them?  The partisans, I think.
51. LANGER: The what?
52. FRANK DOLINSEK: The partisans.
53. LANGER: The partisans, right.  Yeah.
54. FRANK DOLINSEK: They were the ones that got in there before we did.
55. LANGER: Uh-huh.
56. FRANK DOLINSEK: They were in there almost a day before we got into Milan.
57. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And so they strung them all up

—

1. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
2. LANGER: — before you got —
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
4. LANGER: — there?
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  Because we got in to that heavy fighting, so we were delayed a day —
6. LANGER: Yeah.
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: — so — yeah.
8. LANGER: Uh-huh.
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: So the partisans, they got in there and got Mussolini and his mistress.
10. LANGER: Uh-huh.
11. FRANK DOLINSEK: What was her name?  I don’t know the names.  For —
12. LANGER: Yeah.
13. FRANK DOLINSEK: I forget.
14. LANGER: Sure.  Okay.
15. FRANK DOLINSEK: And they hung him — they hung both of them up, too.
16. LANGER: Right.  But these photographs — did you take the photos?
17. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.  My friend took it.
18. LANGER: Uh-huh.
19. FRANK DOLINSEK: Ernest Pitman took the photos.  He was one of my gun crew.
20. LANGER: Yeah.  Where —
21. FRANK DOLINSEK: And he —
22. LANGER: — was he from?
23. FRANK DOLINSEK: He was from North Carolina.
24. LANGER: Uh-huh.
25. FRANK DOLINSEK: He just passed away two years ago.
26. LANGER: Uh-huh.  So you stayed in touch with him?
27. FRANK DOLINSEK: I stayed in touch.  We sent Christmas cards to each other.
28. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Yeah.  Are you active with the 10th Mountain Association?
29. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yes.
30. LANGER: Uh-huh.
31. FRANK DOLINSEK: I’m a full fledged member of the 10th Mountain.
32. LANGER:  Uh-huh.
33. FRANK DOLINSEK: They gave me a card.  I didn’t bring the card.
34. LANGER: Uh-huh.
35. FRANK DOLINSEK: I didn’t think you’d be interested in just the card.
36. LANGER: Okay.  Okay.

Now, John, if we can turn to you for a bit?

You, being five years younger, must have gone into the service sometime between World War II and Korea?

1. JOHN DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
2. LANGER: Yes?  When did you enter the service?
3. JOHN DOLINSEK: At the very tail end of World

War II.

1. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Like —
2. JOHN DOLINSEK: ’44.  Uh-huh.  Yeah, ’44, ’45.
3. FRANK DOLINSEK: ’45.
4. JOHN DOLINSEK: ’44 —
5. FRANK DOLINSEK: ’45.
6. JOHN DOLINSEK: — ’46.
7. FRANK DOLINSEK: Right after you graduated —
8. JOHN DOLINSEK: But I got out in 6 —
9. FRANK DOLINSEK: — from high school.
10. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And why did you join the Navy?
11. JOHN DOLINSEK: Well, we’d done that when we went to Grand Junction on our sneak day.  We walked by the recruiting office and it says, “We want you,” so —
12. LANGER: So you figured it was you they wanted, so —
13. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.  Three of us went in there.  They volunteered for the Navy.
14. LANGER: Uh-huh.
15. JOHN DOLINSEK: It was me and Martin Popish and Buckshot Parsons.  They were interested in Buckshot Parsons because he — his father owned the drugstore up here, so he did a lot of work in the drugs, you know, prescription and the stuff like that.
16. LANGER: Uh-huh.
17. JOHN DOLINSEK:  So he — they wanted him and —
18. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Did he become a pharmacist aid in the —
19. JOHN DOLINSEK: He was a pharmacist.
20. LANGER: — in the Navy?
21. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
22. LANGER: Yeah.  Huh.  Had you ever seen the ocean at that point?
23. JOHN DOLINSEK: No.
24. LANGER: Uh-huh.
25. JOHN DOLINSEK: Like it says, you join the Navy to see the world and all you see is the sea.
26. LANGER: Uh-huh.
27. JOHN DOLINSEK: But I didn’t get to see much of the sea either.
28. LANGER: No?
29. JOHN DOLINSEK: No.  They sent me to San Diego after I went to Farragut, Idaho.
30. LANGER: Right.
31. JOHN DOLINSEK: Then I went to San Diego and stayed there for quite a while.  Then they sent — Pearl Harbor and I got on the USS Marcus Island —
32. LANGER: Uh-huh.
33. JOHN DOLINSEK: — when they were swapping crews.  You know, those that had so much time overseas were getting out and us new guys were going in.
34. LANGER: Right.  They were getting out on points.
35. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  That’s how I got out.
36. LANGER: Yeah.  So do you recall when that was that you went aboard ship?
37. JOHN DOLINSEK: It’d be — well, the War was all

— actually over.

1. LANGER: Yeah.  So probably —
2. JOHN DOLINSEK: So —
3. LANGER: — early ’46.
4. JOHN DOLINSEK: Early ’46.
5. LANGER: Yeah.  Uh-huh.  And what —
6. JOHN DOLINSEK: ’45, ’46.
7. LANGER: — were your duties on the Marcus Island?
8. JOHN DOLINSEK: I was just deckhand and — basically, and combat position was first loader right on a

40 MM.  See that, when I go like that.  You seen pictures in the —

1. LANGER: So —
2. JOHN DOLINSEK: They called them pom-poms.
3. LANGER: Is that an anti-aircraft?
4. JOHN DOLINSEK: It was anything that you wanted to use it.
5. LANGER: Yeah, okay.
6. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
7. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Okay.
8. JOHN DOLINSEK: But basically it was for aircraft.
9. LANGER: Yeah.
10. JOHN DOLINSEK: But they had two loaders —
11. LANGER: Uh-huh.
12. JOHN DOLINSEK: — and then the stuff would come up on a conveyor belt from the ammunition.
13. LANGER: Uh-huh.
14. JOHN DOLINSEK: You’d grab a clip.  There was three 45 mm’s to a clip —
15. LANGER: Uh-huh.
16. JOHN DOLINSEK: — and you grab it off of here, put it in, and all the time that stuff is moving.
17. LANGER: Uh-huh.  So you have to get in a rhythm there?
18. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
19. LANGER: Uh-huh.
20. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.  But that — that was basically all I did.
21. LANGER: Uh-huh.
22. JOHN DOLINSEK: Went to the Pacific Theatre of War and came back, went to Panama Canal, up into the Atlantic, came back and decommissioned in Massachusetts.
23. LANGER: Oh, okay.
24. JOHN DOLINSEK: The Navy scrap yard there —
25. LANGER: Uh-huh.
26. JOHN DOLINSEK: — in Boston.
27. LANGER: Uh-huh.
28. JOHN DOLINSEK: That’s where I left it.
29. LANGER: Yeah.  And where were you sent after the Marcus Island was decommissioned?
30. JOHN DOLINSEK: I was sent to San Diego and there I was discharged and came back right here.
31. LANGER: Oh, okay.  Uh-huh.  How long were you in altogether?
32. JOHN DOLINSEK: Almost two years.
33. LANGER: Yeah.
34. JOHN DOLINSEK: About 18 months, something like that.
35. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And that was the time when they were reducing the size of the military?
36. JOHN DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  Everything was —
37. LANGER: Yeah.
38. JOHN DOLINSEK: — being reduced.
39. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Yeah.
40. JOHN DOLINSEK: But we were still all on call —
41. LANGER: Uh-huh.
42. JOHN DOLINSEK: — for that little incident, you know, they called —
43. LANGER: The Korean War?
44. JOHN DOLINSEK: — Korean War.
45. LANGER: Uh-huh.  So were you called up again during Korea?
46. JOHN DOLINSEK: No.  That’s all I had to do was leave.  Like, if I was going out of town, I had to leave a — my — with my mother where I would be —
47. LANGER: Uh-huh.
48. JOHN DOLINSEK: — in case they called.
49. LANGER: Yeah.
50. JOHN DOLINSEK: — after the Korean War.
51. LANGER: Uh-huh.  But they didn’t recall you for the Korean War?
52. JOHN DOLINSEK: No.
53. LANGER: Uh-huh.
54. JOHN DOLINSEK: There was — it’s also for the Viet Nam War, but they never called me either —
55. LANGER: Uh-huh.
56. JOHN DOLINSEK: — so —
57. LANGER: Let me pose this question to both of you.  How did your time in the military affect the rest of your life?
58. JOHN DOLINSEK: Well, I think it done me good.
59. LANGER: Yeah.
60. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah.
61. LANGER: In what way?
62. JOHN DOLINSEK: Well, I got to meet different people —
63. LANGER: Uh-huh.
64. JOHN DOLINSEK: — different cultures, and being in the Navy you — and onboard ship you have all of them, you know, mixed.
65. LANGER: Uh-huh.
66. JOHN DOLINSEK: You couldn’t have, like, in the city — you — sort of an imaginary boundary line.  You cross that boundary line and you’re in with Italians, say, or German or what —
67. LANGER: Uh-huh.
68. JOHN DOLINSEK: On the ship it was everybody slept together, everybody ate together.
69. LANGER: Uh-huh.
70. JOHN DOLINSEK: Everybody showered.
71. LANGER: Yeah.
72. JOHN DOLINSEK: So — yeah.  You found out that everybody equal.
73. LANGER: Uh-huh.
74. JOHN DOLINSEK: You was only as good as you wanted to be.
75. LANGER: Uh-huh.  And you also counted on —
76. JOHN DOLINSEK: Yeah —
77. LANGER: — your shipmates.
78. JOHN DOLINSEK: — you relied on each other, yeah.
79. LANGER: Uh-huh.
80. JOHN DOLINSEK: So —
81. LANGER: And how about you, Frank?  How did your experience with —
82. FRANK DOLINSEK: Same.
83. LANGER: Yeah?  It was generally positive?
84. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yes.  Uh-huh.
85. LANGER: Uh-huh.  You got to see some of the world, you got to learn about different sorts of people?
86. FRANK DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.  Yeah.  You always slept with somebody.  Like when I was over in Camp Hale, I would buddy up with my First Sergeant.  His name was Sergeant Day —
87. LANGER: Uh-huh.
88. FRANK DOLINSEK: — and we’d throw our pup tent — one pup tent down, put our sleeping bags on it, and then put — throw the other tarp — pup tent over the top of it and then crawl on the —
89. LANGER: Uh-huh.
90. FRANK DOLINSEK: — in.  That was the way we kept warm.
91. LANGER: Yeah.  To conserve body heat.
92. FRANK DOLINSEK: Body heat, yeah.  Uh-huh.
93. LANGER: Yeah.  Did you suffer any psychological effects from the combat that you experienced?
94. FRANK DOLINSEK: Not —
95. LANGER: No?
96. FRANK DOLINSEK: No.
97. LANGER: Uh-huh.
98. FRANK DOLINSEK: I think maybe now it’s a lot different than it was then in — as the way they’re fighting it.
99. LANGER: Uh-huh.  In what way?
100. FRANK DOLINSEK: Like now —
101. JOHN DOLINSEK: Well, mostly distance.
102. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.
103. JOHN DOLINSEK: We never saw really the enemy —
104. LANGER: Yeah.
105. JOHN DOLINSEK: — unless it was like a aircraft, but —
106. LANGER: Right.
107. JOHN DOLINSEK: — combat, but otherwise —
108. FRANK DOLINSEK: Well —
109. JOHN DOLINSEK: — you shoot, you know —
110. LANGER: Uh-huh.  Yeah.  And now you see the enemy.  You’re talking about what’s going on in Iraq, right?
111. FRANK DOLINSEK: Yeah.  It’s different fighting altogether.
112. LANGER: Yeah.  Uh-huh.  Anything else that either of you want to add before we bring this to a close?

Well, I’d like to thank you both for talking with me today.

1. JOHN DOLINSEK: Uh-huh.
2. LANGER: And even more, I’d like to thank you for your service to the Country.
3. JOHN DOLINSEK: Thank you.
4. FRANK DOLINSEK: Thank you.