Roger Moyer

Roger Moyer

Interviewed by Larry Fredrick

December 19, 1995

C139_1995.087.0001

 

Larry Fredrick [00:00:01] …December 19th, 1995. Interviewer is Larry Fredrick. Thank you, Roger. First thing we’d like is a brief biography of yourself and a date when you arrived in Aspen.

 

Roger Moyer [00:00:16] I arrived in Aspen in the fall. It was October of 1965, and I arrived via motorcycle, over Independence Pass, which was malfunctioning but still running. And I’ll never forget, as I came over, the Pass…it was then a dirt road…and I thought I was hopelessly lost, but nevertheless I had my sleeping bag so I wasn’t too worried. And I arrived about 12:00 at night, and it was not a full moon. And in those days, when you came down the western side of the Pass, there were no lights. There were no markers. There was nothing. And finally I spied a light in the distance. And as I came along, I realized that it was probably someone’s home, but there were no cars or anything around. So I kept on going and I said, “Well, I must be near some kind of civilization.” And lo and behold, I arrived in Aspen, and my initial contact was a gentleman that was at that time the editor of a now-defunct newspaper that was published by Shorty Pabst’s son, Bill Rollins. And I found Bill Rollins at one of the only two places in town open, one being the Red Onion and the other one being The Tipple. So I went to The Tipple, and there was Bill, and he took me home. And I’ve been here ever since. My intent, when I came to Aspen, was to spend a winter ski racing and then to enter graduate school at the University of Colorado. Needless to say, I did ski race. I did not enter graduate school, and I remained here. Oh, initially as a ski coach and then later on as a contractor and concerned public person over the years.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:02:05] Okay. Thank you. One other item. Date of birth and place.

 

Roger Moyer [00:02:10] I was born at the start of World War II, in 1941, June 18th, in Syracuse, New York. And I grew up in upstate New York, in a little town outside of Syracuse, on the shore of a lovely lake that’s part of the Erie Canal. And I was fascinated by the Iroquois nation as I grew up.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:02:36] Okay. You arrived in the night time. What do you remember, your first impressions of buildings at that time?

 

Roger Moyer [00:02:44] Well, in those days, Aspen was definitely different than now. There were… the only street that was paved was Main, and there were a lot of vacant lots and a lot of rundown buildings. I think my first impression was the solidness of some of the older buildings, like the Jerome and the Wheeler, and those buildings that were built at the turn of the century, mostly of stone and brick. And of course, I walked into The Tipple, and I thought, “This is a reconstruction of something.” And I realized as I talked to KNCB Moore a few months later, after I met him, that it, in fact, had been made out of the beams and boards of a previous mining building. So I was right. It was a reconstruction of something.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:03:36] So is that a particular building, or is there any specific building or business that you remember that really stuck out at that time?

 

Roger Moyer [00:03:44] I think there were two. One was Tom Sardy’s house because I got to know him right away. And I spent many an evening there eating dinner. And the other was the Brand Building because it was, in the summer, used to house artists. Well, not so much to house them, but as studios for them to work in. Claes Oldenburg, Robert Indiana, Rauschenberg to name a few of the very famous contemporary artists of that period. And of course, now they’re even more famous and probably all millionaires. But I knew them all pretty well in those days because they painted there and hung out around town, and I spent some time with them. And I later, in fact, had my own studio in the Brand Building and lived there, next door to Tom Anderson’s office. {may have meant R.O. Anderson who had an office in the Brand Building, as did Tom Sardy}

 

Larry Fredrick [00:04:41] What…? Are there any buildings that have disappeared that you think are significant, that you miss?

 

Roger Moyer [00:04:48] In the core of town, not as many as perhaps in the West End. It was a bit disheartening to see a lot of the old Victorians go, and it was also disheartening to see some of the buildings on Main Street be removed. Some were removed to make place for the Miners Building. And I think most recently, the attempt to add on to the Elli’s Building, although certainly okay, has somewhat disturbed the integrity of that old building. And also in those days, when I first came, there were a lot of characters in town. There was Henry Stein, who had a marvelous office in the building, which, I think most people know of as Pour La France. But before it became Pour La France, there was a wonderful restaurant on the corner owned by a Swiss couple, and around the corner was Henry Stein’s office, which had beautiful bronze statuary in the window. And he would hang out there and hold court. You could always stop in and chat with him. And of course, next door, a block away, was the Grand Building {Brand?}, where R.O. Anderson had an office, and he and Tom Sardy would spend many hours hitting a golf ball into a net. And the stories that I listened to in that office were wonderful ones about the early days of Aspen.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:06:27] So are there any buildings now that are historic in nature that you think might be misused or could be improved on?

 

Roger Moyer [00:06:41] I don’t believe there’s any misuse of buildings that are historic in nature, although there is an interesting scenario. The ISIS building, as we all know it, on the Webber Block, will be renovated. The front facade will be kept. The east side will be kept and the rear facade will be kept. An addition will be put on. And for all intents and purposes, everything inside will be gutted out. This is happening all over the country. I don’t necessarily consider it a desecration of a historic building, although it certainly is a major change too. If the proposal goes through as planned, there will be a structure built on top. I’m not particularly inclined to like that. It’s not illegal. Will it work? Probably. Has it been done in other parts of the country? Yes. Has it been done successfully? Yes and no. Will this one be successful? If it’s reduced in its mass and scale, probably. Although really, there’s no need to put it up there because it’s alternative housing, employee housing, and maybe a free market unit. Those could, in fact, be put elsewhere. But it all comes down to economics. What’s going to work for the people that want to restore a building to make it, in fact, viable again? The wonderful part of this one, the Webber Block, is that it will be restored to the way it was initially built, with its original columns showing, its entry, the original storefronts and windows. It will be quite exciting.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:08:23] Are there any buildings that are new to town now that you think might be historically significant in 100 years?

 

Roger Moyer [00:08:35] I think probably, although I can’t see how. I would say in the core area that perhaps the building which is now between the Brand Building and what was the Sardy Building is a good example of infill dealing with historic properties adjacent to it. The design works with, doesn’t conflict with, it doesn’t attempt to copy. So perhaps it will be looked at by historians and scholars as a building that was built not to interfere with something that was historic 100 years later. I think many of the… the architecture from… as a result of the “ski-building” of Aspen, has more to do with ego than it has to do with blending with or by consideration for historic ethic. And it’s also very interesting that Aspen has no style of its own. It has its historic style, but the new architecture hasn’t really attempted to blend with or work with that, or develop a mountain style or a Western style. It’s very eclectic, and it seems to be a shadow of the ego of the architect and/or the person that’s paying the bills.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:10:07] So given that, with when you arrived here and the current thinking, do you think new residents have the same appreciation for the historic structures?

 

Roger Moyer [00:10:22] I think some do, but unfortunately I think many may have the appreciation, but they don’t know it, and others haven’t learned how to deal with it. A long time ago, Elizabeth Paepcke gave me a book, and the book was called “How to See.” And it dealt with how people viewed the physical world around them, be it power lines, architecture, lawns, gardens, roadways, sidewalks, whatever it might be, and how often times, in the rush to get on with life, they just overlook some of the most horrendous, obvious mistakes. And it takes a certain amount of prodding or academic training or community activism to realize the resource that you have and to not overlook it and to lose sight of the beauty, both in the mountains and within the town itself. And I think as a result of people learning, we did, in fact, remove all the wires from downtown and opened up the vistas. We established the Historic Preservation Commission, which initially was very weak and perhaps unguided and is now becoming more enlightened and more guided and more aware of what we have. We lost a lot. We are still losing some, but we are holding forth, and it’s much more difficult for somebody to come in and desecrate a historic part of Aspen than it was 20 years ago or longer.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:12:12] So when you arrived, as opposed to now, was there some time period that the people began to really notice that or become involved?

 

Roger Moyer [00:12:22] I think as Aspen grew, both in populace and in its own image of self, which obviously had to do with the people that came here as well as those that were here, and they saw some of the things that were happening and realized that we could really spoil a wonderful resource, that people realized there had to be some kind of control. And of course, that initially starts with a couple of people chatting because of a personal situation, a house built next door or something of that nature. And then it evolves to other friends, and then eventually it reaches into the political process so that the elected officials realize that they need to help preserve a resource. And once that happens, through education and the ability of people to realize they don’t want to lose what they have, then you establish certain rules and regulations that some people don’t like, but overall make the experience here better for everyone.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:13:30] So you don’t know that there was any specific time or there wasn’t any real big movement where people…?

 

Roger Moyer [00:13:36] I think in Aspen, probably the most recent enlightened movement took place in the ’70s, and it was a joint county and city movement. It started with a certain magistrate, who was European, imprisoning people for no reason other than the fact that they had long hair and different ideas. It began with the ACLU coming in here due to the impetus of a certain attorney, who later became a county commissioner, who put the police department on probation, and the magistrate was dismissed. And through all of that, which was really the activism of the late ’60s and the early ’70s, Aspen grew, and it was painful. We adopted a Historic Preservation Commission. More and better architects came into town. Although we already had Fritz Benedict and his reasonable approach to things, other people came in that gave him more clout, and the political people became more aware. So I would say there was a joint activism of not only curtailing growth, but saving what we have. That took place around the Joe Edwards/Dwight Shellman/Pitkin County era. It was the time that Richard Kienast was elected sheriff. He was part of that whole movement. The city council was much more enlightened. Some of the old cronies were thrown off the county commission, and new, more progressive people were elected. There was a recall of a couple of city councilmen because they weren’t on with the program. And it was rather exciting times. It was right after the…. What was the…? Sort of Kennedy parrot period on a national level.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:15:38] Let’s talk about some specific buildings now and how you remember them and how you might think about them. Let’s start with the Sardy House on Main Street.

 

Roger Moyer [00:15:48] Ah, yes. Tom’s house. The Sardy House was a wonderful place, even though it was a mortuary. And once you got beyond that and realized that it was really a house that people lived in and children grew up in. Additions had been put onto it that made it a little more modern, but still funky in a way. Tom’s interiors were nothing like the Victorian. They were 1950s style, but there was a warmth and genuine hospitality there. The house originally was built by a Doctor Twining, and he was obviously a pretty interesting guy, and it was incredibly well-built and still is. And his wife remained there when Tom Sardy moved to town. And Tom owned the lumberyard and the only place in town that sold paint. And she came in and said, “Tom, I want to buy some white paint.” And he said, “Well, what for?” And she said, “I want to paint all the woodwork out in the house.” Well, the woodwork was beautifully milled oak and had been, developed a loving patina over the years. It was stained and varnished and was in immaculate condition. And he had his eye on that house, and he said, “Well, I’ve got to put her off” to himself. And so he told her that he didn’t really have the paint that she needed. And why didn’t she wait till the next season? Whenever it came in, he’d get it together for her. And several times she came in, and he just kept putting her off. And finally he made an offer on the house and bought the house. And needless to say, he bought it without painting the interior woodwork.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:17:30] That’s great. Now, today it’s a bed and breakfast inn. How do you feel about its use today?

 

Roger Moyer [00:17:38] Well, that was an interesting renovation. As I said, Tom had put an addition or two on it that weren’t… they weren’t great. They fitted his needs. There wasn’t a great deal of sensitivity to the architecture. So when the chance came to make it into a bed and breakfast, it was a terrific way of preserving the original house. And rather than adding on to the house, a building was built to the rear without even a connecting link, and that building blended with the historic character. And then the interior of the main house was renovated, and the outside was simply painted and upgraded. And it’s… I think it’s been most successful, and we’ve been able to keep a wonderful part of Aspen… and also successful financially. A lot of people hoo-ha’ed it and said it wouldn’t work. And actually, it’s booked year-round, along with another smaller lodge. Small lodges do work, contrary to a lot of public opinion.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:18:45] Do you think the use of this building may change, say, in 10 years or 15 years?

 

Roger Moyer [00:18:49] I think the use of this building will probably always remain as a bed and breakfast. I can’t see it really being utilized for much more than an office building, and I don’t think the economics warrant it being changed over. I think it does well for itself.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:19:05] Let’s move down the street to the Lincoln/Chitwood Block, which is better known as the Cantina today. What was that building like when you first remembered it?

 

Roger Moyer [00:19:16] Well, the building was not painted. The brick was fairly substantial. It was in not great condition, but not falling apart. It needed roof work, and obviously it had some commercial value, either as stores or shops or whatever it might be. At that time, it was, when I came here, it was a small restaurant in the front, and in the summer there was a lovely open space to the east, which was covered with a parachute, and we sat outside and dined. And there were several, as I said, Henry Stein’s office, things of that nature going on in there. I think there were some apartments upstairs. And then it was rather haphazardly renovated, and a coat of paint was thrown on it. And not much was done until the connecting link was built to the east. And then a new building was built, which is now, where Pour La France was, an Italian restaurant, and so on. And once all of that took place, it was upgraded a little better. And then when Don Fleischer took it over and the fellow from San Antonio that now owns the Mexican restaurant that’s in it, we took a good look at it to bring it around, at least on the exterior, and elected to not remove the paint, but to leave it on and to remove all that would come off with mechanical means, and then to consolidate the brick and restore the masonry which was done. And then we applied a coating of elastomeric on it, which was an acrylic that’s very thick and greasy. And that’s been on now for, I guess, 5 or 6 years, and it has a 7- or 10-year warranty. And it’s working quite well. So the building, I think, will probably be left as it is in its commercial vein, and it’s working successfully. And it’s a great example of early architecture, less the brick being exposed. And probably because the brick was made from local clay and not terribly strong and resistant against modern pollutants, which are mostly automotive emissions and acid rain, the fact that it’s painted is okay and that will keep it for a long time.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:21:55] Okay, let’s move on to the Collins Block, which is better known as the old Sardy Hardware Store. How do you remember that building?

 

Roger Moyer [00:22:05] That was a terrific space. That was the place you walked in the front door, and you knew everyone. Anything you wanted, you could hunt in the aisles. And the cabinets have been there forever, and there’s this labyrinth in the basement, and a funny little room out back, and all of these treasures that you could purchase and look for. And it was staffed and owned by people who… some of the people had been born and raised here. Obviously, Tom Sardy moved here right after the war. It was a marvelous place. And obviously one had to realize that as Aspen changed, that it wouldn’t always be a hardware store, that it would change into shops or boutiques or whatever it would change into. There were offices upstairs and some residences, and it has evolved. It’s been preserved. It, in fact, has an apartment on the top which is not visible from any street level whatsoever. And I think that’s good. It’s a marvelous apartment. It obviously commands a great price these days. It’s beautifully done, and unless you’re on top of another building, you’d never know it’s there. Certainly, the basement has evolved to something unique in the private club. It retains a wonderful charm of an old building, even though in the old days, seldom did people go down there unless you happened to go down with one of the staff. So maybe the fact that it’s changed, more people realize the life that a building has and has had, more people get to see intimate parts of an old building, because now it’s a private club. Who knows?

 

Larry Fredrick [00:23:58] Now that building is neoclassical Victorian architectural style. Do you think many people, locals and visitors, recognize it as being significant in that type of design?

 

Roger Moyer [00:24:11] Yeah, I think they do. And I think particularly those that are interested and those that take the historic tours are drawn into the uniqueness of that particular style. And it’s interesting because Aspen was built initially by people who set up tents, and then later on, little log homes were built. And then people dug holes in the earth and found something that was worth a lot of money. And in order to do that, they needed capital. And then people arrived that had capital and a great sense of taste. And so when they wanted to build a building, they built something that was familiar to them, which in this period was the Victorian period of America in the late 1800s, early 1900s, particularly late 1800s. As people became successful, they would add on to their little houses in various styles out of a catalog. The wealthier people came into town, erected the Opera House and the Hotel Jerome and the building we just discussed, and the Chitwood Building and others. Whatever architect they chose worked with mainly the style that was being used in New York or Boston. And of course, that’s where the money came from. So that made somewhat sense that that would happen.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:25:44] Let’s move to the Brand Building, how you remember it and…

 

Roger Moyer [00:25:52] Ah, the Brand Building…. Well, I lived in the Brand Building for three years. It was basically empty. There were two full-time people that would spend a lot of time there. One was Yvonne Thomas, who was an artist from New York and French by birth, had a studio in the upper floor on the far south end, windows facing to the west. So she had that wonderful afternoon light, and she painted mostly with oils and various shaped canvases. And she was sort of reclusive up there. And I remember one time I was exploring the building, and I happened to open a window into her part, and I really startled her. And we became fast friends, and she realized that I was actually living in the downstairs corner of the building. She had seen me around. And also in the early days when I came to Aspen, I was a climber. And so in the evenings after work, one of my training, many of my training routes were on the Brand Building. Until recently, some of the pitons that I had I inserted in openings in the mortar were still there. So I’d spend many a time climbing off a fixed rope up and down the columns. I probably never needed the rope, but I always used it for safety. I could scamper up those things in record time. The other person that resided in the building, I think he actually lived there, was a funny old man who was an upholsterer, and his daughter still lives in town and her name escapes me. She’s a string bean of a thing and rides around on a bicycle. And his name was… it began with a T… I can’t remember. And he ran an upholstery shop, which was full of things. It was the most fascinating place to go into. There was every conceivable type of antique, parts of old cars. He was an amazing craftsman. He could do anything. But he was a strange bird. he was as scrawny as any scarecrow you’d find in a garden. But he could fix anything, and he knew where to get any piece of fabric or thread. And I had a wonderful time there. My neighbor was R.O. Anderson and Tom Sardy. And R.O. Anderson was the largest, and probably still is, landowner in North America, chairman of Atlantic Richfield, president of the Aspen Institute. Later, he’d get into a big fight with Elizabeth Paepcke and pull out of Aspen and nearly pulled the Institute out of Aspen. But all of that resolved itself over the years. And R.O. was a real character. He and Tom Sardy were two peas in a pod. They were interesting guys, and they had lots of fun stories to tell. And they both had taken a liking to me, and I had a marvelous time in the three years that I lived in this building.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:29:00] Do you remember what years those were?

 

Roger Moyer [00:29:03] I think that was 1969, ’70, ’71, in that area. The Brand Building, at that time, was cut away on the south east corner. That had been a gas station that had been put in there at some point, and it had been allowed. It was simply… it was empty when I came. And later on that was enclosed and became a very successful retail space after Harley Baldwin bought the building. I think the most exciting times were in the summer in those years, ’66, ’67, and ’68, when all the great artists would come and use the building as a studio. They’d paint on the walls and floors and ceilings and have these great shows, and it was just all of that energy. And part of that energy was the same energy that was thriving in Aspen to start an HPC to take a look at, seriously take a look at growth, be it good or bad, both in the back country and downtown. It was just part of that wonderful energy that happened here.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:30:14] Do you remember the upstairs as being a large ballroom?

 

Roger Moyer [00:30:17] The upstairs when I was there, as you went up the main set of, main stairway, you came into a hallway. You turned right, and the whole west end of the building was an immense room, which I used for showing films and having all my parties. It had been a dance studio, and I suppose one could say it could have been a ballroom, but it had been used by someone to teach dance. In fact, the rail was around the wall. And it was really somewhat condemned when I was there, although we did use it. And then as you… and the same stairs exist today, you can walk up the stairs…. {break in recording}

 

Roger Moyer [00:31:04] The upstairs of the Brand Building… Yeah, there was a large room that had been used as a dance recital room, and today it is now a very upscale modern apartment. There were a lot of smaller rooms that were used when I was, in the early days, in the ’60s, by the artists as studios that have now been made into various offices and other functions. It was, in the summer at least, a very lively place. In the winter it was, as was much of Aspen in the early ’60s and middle ’60s, early ’70s, very, very quiet.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:31:44] Let’s move on to Hyman Avenue. What is now called the Crystal Palace building. It was originally the Clark’s Commission House. How do you first remember that?

 

Roger Moyer [00:31:56] Well, I first remembered it as Mead Metcalf’s restaurant, the Crystal Palace, and I think what I enjoyed most was the wonderful old cigar paintings on that side of the building. And of course, Mead hit upon an immensely successful venture with his wife, who was Freddie Fisher’s daughter. And they really provided just fabulous entertainment. And I believe Mead actually owned the building, or his dad did. And as a result, over the years, he managed to keep the integrity of his restaurant because he wasn’t faced with exorbitant rents. And thus he was always very successful. And as a result, the building hasn’t changed a whole lot. It’s pretty much stayed the way it is since I’ve been here.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:32:58] Was the second floor added to before you came?

 

Roger Moyer [00:33:03] I don’t remember. I don’t remember when that was put on, actually. I think it was.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:33:14] You don’t remember any other businesses but the Crystal Palace?

 

Roger Moyer [00:33:16] I don’t remember anything but Crystal Palace.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:33:19] Can you tell us anything about the cigar sign?

 

Roger Moyer [00:33:22] Well, that was redone by Gaard Moses actually, as were a couple of others around town.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:33:32] We’ll move on to the Aspen Block, down the street. How do you remember that when you first came?

 

Roger Moyer [00:33:40] Well, I think I lived in the Aspen Block at one time, actually, for a brief period, maybe one winter. And…

 

Larry Fredrick [00:33:56] What kind of businesses were in there? {break in recording}

 

Roger Moyer [00:34:04] The Aspen Block, which is the corner building on Hyman and Galena. I did live there. I lived there very early on, I think the second winter I was in Aspen. And I shared the upstairs apartment with Georges Odier and Stuart “Boot” Gordon. And the apartment was actually large. It was actually three apartments in one, so there was a lot of privacy. And there were tremendous chess games being held there all the time. They were quite heated, and I remember those. That was in the early days when Aspen was just becoming what we know it now as sort of a modern ski town. I would sit in the corner window and watch the people, particularly at Christmas, moving around below, listen to the noises and so on. throw snowballs. And I think what I remember mostly about the building is that all the stores on the street were all… there were just local folks doing business. There was the gas company when I first moved in, which later moved out, and Robert Massucco opened a dentist’s office there. There was… Franz Berko was in the building, and he, of course, is a world-famous photographer. And he ran his photography studio out of there for years and sold pictures. There was a toy store that his wife ran. There were small, locally owned little businesses that made the atmosphere of downtown Aspen what it was. And of course, that’s changed immensely over the years.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:35:45] Any of those particular businesses you’d like to see here today?

 

Roger Moyer [00:35:49] Well, Franz, of course, is semi-retired, and his wife also closed the toy store. It would be… they actually moved out of the building in the late ’70s, early ’80s into a brick building, which has since been moved down the block and restored, and ran a successful business out of that. It would be wonderful if those small businesses could be part of Aspen again, but with the amount of dollars that have been put into the historic buildings and upgrading and so on, it probably just won’t happen. It’ll have to be high-end boutiques of some sort.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:36:29] Okay, let’s move on to the Keene Block, which is better known as Aspen Drug. How do you remember that?

 

Roger Moyer [00:36:37] Well, Aspen Drug hasn’t changed since I came. In fact, it’s probably been owned by the same gentleman all of these years, who’s now a retired Army chaplain. And he’s kind of a hands-on character. And he’s kept the building somewhat upgraded, and the colors are the same. The drugstore is still there. In fact, I think Albie Kern’s office was there when I first came to town. The hair salon upstairs has been changed over the years, and that’s probably a good business. It’s a wonderful old place, and someday I’m afraid that it will probably be sold and drastically renovated, at least on the interior, and perhaps divided up into smaller shops and office space. But it’s character hasn’t changed much.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:37:39] What about next door where the restaurant space is? Do you remember much about that or different restaurants that have been there?

 

Roger Moyer [00:37:45] Well, there was a building there that burned down. It was a wonderful old wooden structure, as were many. There are very few of the old wooden structures of early Aspen left anymore. Really, in the downtown core, the only one that I can think of is the Motherlode, which was originally a {unintelligible}, but all the others are gone. They’ve fallen to the axe and the torch, and just over time…

 

Larry Fredrick [00:38:14] Do you remember a tree growing in that space?

 

Roger Moyer [00:38:16] Yeah, there was a little courtyard with a tree, and there was a renovation in the ’70s that removed all of that.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:38:27] Let’s move up to Cooper Street. The Brown and Hoag Building, which is known as Independence Square or Independence Building today. How do you remember that one?

 

Roger Moyer [00:38:39] Independence Building hasn’t changed much, except that it’s been cleaned up. And I remember when I came, originally it was green and white, everything on the building. And I thought, “This building really needs to be restored.” And it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen. And then finally, when Tony Mazza took it over, we painted the outside and cleaned it up and did the marvelous color scheme on the street, which accentuated the old steel columns, which I think most people thought were wood. And some new doors were put in, and they were left pretty natural. And with the gray and the red, and the gold trim that’s currently there, it’s just… it hasn’t done anything more than accentuate the historical flavor of the building. I think there’s been some talk of it becoming apartments again, as opposed to a hotel.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:39:40] Would you think that would be a significant change in its character?

 

Roger Moyer [00:39:42] Well, initially it was a brothel, way back. Because the train came in on Durant, and the brothels were from Independence over to the mountain as we know it today, The Little Nell, that part of town where the train stopped. It was a station, but that was also where the houses of ill repute were, and mostly wooden, were located. And of course, the Independence either was or was part of… I think there were wooden buildings behind the Independence in what is now a new building that were small little chicken coops that were used by the ladies in those days. But the Independence was really the… where one checked in.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:40:32] What about… you said it was painted green and white. Do you remember when it was renovated?

 

Roger Moyer [00:40:39] Well, we changed the colors not very long ago, probably 6 or 7 years ago, we did the new color scheme. And up until that time it had always been… I think the green and white was actually done back in the, probably in the ’50s, early ’60s, when it was a drugstore.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:02] Which drugstore was that?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:04] It was the Crossroads, as I knew it.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:06] And was that when you came in?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:08] When I came, it was a drugstore. Yeah.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:10] What about upstairs? Was that a rooming house?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:12] It was apartments.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:13] Did it have a name?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:16] It was called the Independence Lodge. And it was apartments that all the ski bums lived in.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:23] Since you did the painting, do you remember anything about the cornice work up on top? Is that pressed tin or…?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:31] We did not do any work on the cornice work. We only did the ground floor level, and I don’t know too much about what’s going on up above. I haven’t been up there.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:41:44] Moving east. The Bowman Block, which is also known as the LaFave building, is actually three buildings. What can you tell us about that? What was it like when you first came?

 

Roger Moyer [00:41:56] Well, when I first came, Fritz’s office was there. Fritz Benedict. And Stein Eriksen, who was and is a legendary skier, bought the building, and his wife Garvene called and said, “I want to paint the building because we want to have some commercial spaces. Fritz is going to leave, and we want to put a ski shop in here and whatnot. And I don’t want it to look like one building,” which it truly wasn’t. It was really three buildings, although they owned it as one building. And I said, “Well, let’s do a color scheme that accentuates the three different buildings, thus three different businesses,” because that really was what was going to happen. The corner building was to be a business. The middle building was to be McDonough Sports, which it was for years, and then the one to the right of that was whatever it was…I forget. So we came up with a color scheme and applied it. Everyone thought it was nifty. And the color scheme has remained until about 3 or 4 years ago. Someone changed the color in the middle building to a little brighter, and actually that was done by Stein’s new wife. But other than that, everything’s pretty much remained the same. And probably the reason that the old brick building has held up so well is the fact that when I came, Herbert Bayer had painted it Bayer Pink because Herbert Bayer’s studio/office was also located in that building. And up until probably ten years before he died, he worked there, at least in the summers. Not… because he didn’t always spend the winters here, although he did spend some. And a friend of mine named Dick Carter, who has a show coming up shortly, finished his paintings and catalogued them and did all of that sort of thing. So I hung out there a bit, and I got to know Herbert Bayer and his wife, Joella, who were also great friends of the Berkos. And Herbert was a true artist and a great leader in the, of course, the Bauhaus movement. He was from Germany and was brought here by Walter Paepcke and… To go back to the painting of the building, it was amusing because Garvene didn’t have a clue what she wanted. And I think it was my first real full color scheme of working on a Victorian-period building without authentic colors and yet not making it like the “Painted Ladies” in San Francisco. Making it work, but not the two diversionary colors {unintelligible}.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:44:41] Had that building been painted originally? Were you able to establish that or…?

 

Roger Moyer [00:44:47] Probably not. At least the brick part. The wooden part, oh yeah, there was old paint under there which we cleaned up. As I said, Herbert had painted the brick part with Herbert Bayer paint. He did that. He did Pioneer Park, he did the Jerome, several others. And actually, even though a lot of people don’t like the Herbert Bayer paint… {disruption in recording} …great service because he came, gosh, in the early ’50s and until recently that paint has preserved those brick buildings. The Jerome, of course, has since been stripped, but I think one reason it held up so well is the fact that it had been painted all those years.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:45:26] Okay, that covers the buildings we’ve selected. Is there any comment that you’d like to make? Any additional comments about buildings and structures and people and interaction?

 

Roger Moyer [00:45:37] I think the most important thing, from my perspective now, particularly since I sit on HPC, if I own a historic property, particular landmark, and I want to change a window or a door or do anything to it, I need to notify everyone within a 300-yard radius of where I live. Yet, if I own a historic property, and Joe lives next door and Joe’s property may not be historic, or it might be a vacant lot, Joe can build anything he wants that may totally distract from the integrity of the historic structure. And until we resolve issues like that, we may continue to lose some of the battles. My feeling is that we need some sort of historic review, probably of the entire downtown core of Aspen, or at least within a radius of existing landmark buildings, simply to protect the integrity of those buildings so that something doesn’t get built that overshadows or takes away from or totally destroys the feeling within a block. And I think one needs to look at Aspen block by block. They’re all uniquely different. And dealing in a friendly residential scale with whatever you do within the core of Aspen historically.

 

Larry Fredrick [00:47:11] Okay. Well, thank you very much. We appreciate that.