Friedl Pfeifer

Interviewee: Friedl Pfeifer

Interviewer:  Annie Gilbert

July 21, 1994, Little Nell Hotel, Aspen, CO

C111 -1994.050.0001

 

Just by means of introduction, could you say a little about where you were born and raised?

I was born the 23rd of March, 1911 in a town called Arlberg, Austria and was raised there and I got involved in skiing when I was 10 years old.  I was as you say in the right place at the right time at least with skiing.  Alpine skiing wasn’t big, cross country skiing there was thousands of courses.  Alpine skiing started in 1920-21, before the Second World War.

 

So did you start skiing because of your family or…?

Actually we started skiing because there was a playground and also a __________ to go to the skiing school that was up on the mountainside and you had to go to school.   In order to do skiing you would have to go to school that would be about uh…..

 

That’s ok.  When did you start skiing as a sport?  You started racing relatively early didn’t you?

Yes, yes I was 14 years old when I was hired by the first ski school.  I had spoken with a kid.

 

How would you describe the relationship between skiing in Europe and skiing in the states?  I understand it began a lot earlier in Europe, how would you say it came to the United States?

Well that’s a pretty broad question.

 

Well for you then, what do you think?

Well for me it was in 1935 I took over the American girls Olympic team as a trainer and obviously I had found out that Americans were very hard skiers and liked it very much.  I think I probably had some ideas about someday going back to America to help develop skiing there because I had some experience with the women, I could be of some help.

 

When did you come to the United States?

In 1938.

 

And did you have…what brought you to the States?

In 1938 Austria was swallowed up by Hitler and I was very much anti-Hitler and I got the opportunity to go to Australia, I was invited to Australia to start a ski school at a newly developed ski resort there, Mt. Kosciusko and I had contacts through training the American team in America and had every intention to go from there to America.  First you see what’s going on here and that’s the way that worked.  I arrived on the 1st of October, 1938 in San Francisco and headed straight for Sun Valley which was under construction and then I compared…I went to New York to make contact with the Alice Chair at the time who was financing and organizing the American team.

 

Did you have any images of the United States that made it attractive to you?  Did you have any specific goals or…?

Yes definitely, every American I had met in Austria I was always asking questions.  Another reason was their courage, they loved skiing and that brought me very close to Americans.

 

So did you have a goal of helping develop skiing in America?

Yes very definitely.

 

And how did that goal turn out?

I think it turned out wonderful.  I continued to train,  my first job was to continue to train the girls team which Averill Harriman invited the team to come to ______ train, that’s the way it started.  Then from there I sort of was promoted into starting the ski school.

 

Could you say a little bit about what it was like to coach the women’s ski team?

Oh delightful, absolutely wonderful.

 

Were you surprised that there was a women’s ski team in America?

No not really, I was not surprised at all.

 

Were there lots of girls skiing in your hometown too?

Not really no.  No it was…to start it was a mans sport, but soon after that we were coaching the American girls team which was my first training job, the American girls team.

 

How did you find them as skiers?

Always very enthusiastic, delighted.

 

Did you find that they were willing to take the same kinds of risks that anyone else was?

Oh absolutely, absolutely.

 

You began the ski school at Sun Valley after your job coaching?

Yes.

 

It’s curious to me how important Europeans and Austrians in particular like yourself were in the development of ski school programs in America, would you say that that’s true?

Yeah, it’s absolutely true.

Why do you think that’s the case?

Circumstances, we were a little bit ahead of the skiing itself and we just were very willing to help to get it going and the enthusiasm was there and obviously the population was there and the money was there.  So all it needed was a little instruction.

 

So was the ski school in Sun Valley very popular?

Very popular, I took it over when there was seven instructors.  Two years later I had 200 instructors.

 

What kinds of people came to Sun Valley to take lessons from you?

All kinds, there were local people, there were…just all kinds.

 

From all over the country?

From all over the country yes.

 

Was there a number of people who had been skiing in Europe before and then went to Sun Valley’s school?

Yes some yes always.

 

So maybe they would be attracted by your presence certainly at Sun Valley?

Yes.

 

Oh that’s nice.  So how did you end up in Aspen for the first time?

That was Aspen as we know in 1941.  After the War broke out I volunteered to be in the Army because I was taking any opportunity to get rid of Hitler and after the War was over, actually during the War on one maneuver from Camp Hale there at the 10th Mtn. Division we came to…we went over the Williams Mountains as they called it on a maneuver we came into Aspen and the first look I had from where we came out at Hunter Creek, the first look there I thought I was home.  It reminded me of my hometown.

 

Was it the town that reminded you of home or the mountains or…?

The mountains oh yes.

 

So would you say that the Rocky Mountains right here do look like the Alps?

Part of it, yes.  I was going to develop something here in the way of skiing, but the population here was very…there were only about 200 people here.  But they had a ski jump up there, they were locally skiing on the ski run which ______________ and I was determined to pursue the development of it all the best I could.

 

I understand that a lot of the people in the 10th Mtn. Division fell in love with the Rocks when they were at Camp Hale.

Yes they did.

 

Why do you suppose that is?

Well I think that’s quite an obvious thing because Aspen is just something very special, climatic and it’s also quite easy to get here and back.  It was, it’s getting a little bit crowded now, it’s a little more difficult.

 

Can you remember some other member of the 10th Mtn. Division who also fell in love with Aspen who shared your desire to come?

Yes there were a few, Steve Knowlton and quite a few, I can’t think.

 

Ok, that’s fine.  You mentioned that the mountains and the town made Aspen special to you, was there anything else that struck you about the area when you first saw it?

(someone comes along and interrupts the conversation for a few minutes).

 

Well I know what I was going to ask you, I have spoken with a number of people who have moved to Aspen or who started, who came here to ski and ended up staying and they say there’s something special about this place.

Yes.

 

Did you find that also?

Very definitely.

 

How would you describe that feeling?  Or what was it that made you feel that way?

Well I have never played with any drugs, but obviously on drugs you get addicted.  Well I think that’s about what happened to Aspen, you get addicted to it.  I understand that perfectly because I got addicted immediately.  Unfortunately the beautiful community here is scattered, but it was everything I saw here was absolutely perfect.  Even without me it would have become a world ski resort.  I am very proud that I had the opportunity to help it along.

 

What was the community like when you got here?

Oh fantastic, absolutely fantastic.  They helped with everything, everything every time you did something they came out, all of them and just wanted to help.  A real community that I was dreaming of developing a skiing community which it was for quite a while and then some of it got lost.

 

Why do you think Aspen is…well do you think Aspen is different from other ski towns in Colorado?

Yes I think it is in a way, why, that’s pretty hard to say because there’s other things to Aspen like within five or ten miles there’s a hundred miles of streams running in all directions and all of them have fish in it.  That helps to promote the resort a little bit and the climate year round is just so delightful and natural.  We have the cold, we have the warm and actually when Aspen is green, it’s greener than any place else in the land.  When it’s snow, it’s better than any place else in America because it’s in the middle of the country.  The snow doesn’t have enough moisture in it to freeze, so you don’t have any ice, so the snow is perfect.  It just is a special place, God must have created it just for this.

 

How would you compare it to say Sun Valley?

Well Sun Valley unfortunately was created 2000 feet too low.  They have a lot of problems with snow.  It’s a different climate, it’s not a climate that changes to your pleasure, it’s a climate that you sort of have to learn to live with and the construction of the mountains is different.  It’s very beautiful country, Idaho is a beautiful state.  It’s just different, it isn’t quite as obvious as a ski resort.

 

Do you think there’s a relationship between the music (MAA) and the culture in the summer in Aspen and it’s success as a ski resort?

Well that has been proven obvious because Walter Paepcke and I, he started his program and I started my program and often in a discussion we sort of half promised ourselves to, that I would support him and he would support me.  Both of us, when I started my ski program he was doubting my program and both of them were a huge success.

 

How did you support each other?

Oh actually just sort of believed, no big revelations.  I respected his programs very much, I did from the beginning and anybody that at the time was not quite clear how the two programs could be getting along together, it was a natural thing.  It’s just a beautiful thing today.

 

I agree.

It’s wonderful to be able to grow up with those two things.

 

I have been trying to figure out exactly what the relationship is between the cultural part of Aspen and the skiing part of Aspen.

I think it’s not too big a gap between, it’s just there’s this tremendous increase in population.  The local politics is not very stable, it just keeps floundering around and trying to find a way.  But basically I don’t think there’s too much difference.

 

How about in the Forties and the Fifties when both programs were younger, would you say the same thing?

Yes, pretty much the same because it was obviously different people pursued the skiing and the music to some degree.  It’s just a matter of taste, I don’t think there should be too much difference they’re both human beings and they’re both Americans.

 

It seems and I think you mentioned this a little bit before, that there’s a really strong connection between the local community and the growth of the ski area, of a successful ski area and maybe a ski school program or a racing program.  How do you think that works, how do you think that ski school programs and racing programs and communities help the ski area grow or does it work the other way?

I don’t think it helps it grow, I think it’s just part of it that is very nice.  I don’t think it’s used as a promotional thing.  I don’t think Aspen needs to spend any dollars to promote it because it’s natural.  My biggest shock came when I found out that which I didn’t experience at Sun Valley, the skiers came to ski the chairlift year after year and never any of them came to stay.  Aspen started to have a…half the people that came here settled here, that was a new one.

So the community must have grown a lot since you first came here?

Oh yes tremendously.

 

Did you have…when you started the ski school here did you have the same kinds of students that you had at Sun Valley, people from all over?

Oh yes, yes some of them that I had in Sun Valley came here, that would be natural, because the skier doesn’t get married to a place, you know they want to try another place.

 

Usually were they here for about a week or so, was that true?

A week or two weeks oh yes.  That’s a natural time to come all that ways, less than a week that’s not healthy and more than two weeks you have to…two weeks was about how long the skier usually stays because…but again that’s changed because people just came and stayed all winter and the next thing you knew they were building a house.

 

Was there a certain kind of person that tended to do that do you think?

No, all walks of life.

 

When you were running the ski school what kinds of things were you trying to do with it, what were your goals?

Well I was taught in my upbringing in the ski school I was actually taught more to teach how to have fun on skis rather than all of those techniques that they…techniques and all kinds of words you can print, like what they call the wedge and a few other things, I don’t go for that.  I was concentrating and I brought up that it was more important to have fun on skis, not to become a world champion and be crazy about it.  So I concentrated on that at the ski school.  I think it still is pretty much the same.

 

Were there some special instructors that had an extra amount of fun on skis would you say?

Oh yes, but I wouldn’t want to degrade any instructor that I had, but they were all absolutely fabulous.

 

Could you tell me a little bit about the beginning of Buttermilk?

I tagged Buttermilk right out when I discovered Aspen as an area to be developed for the average skier because Aspen Mtn. is…you have to be a pretty good skier to really enjoy.  I take that right away and think things through finally in 1958.  I was trying to get the Ski Corporation (Aspen Skiing Co.) to try and develop it and I tried that for a while and every time I suggested it I was turned down so eventually I just did it myself.  That was fun to do it and I think today people are really accepting of it because there are more people skiing out there than any place else.  The average skier, that’s all they want.  This is for the young folks and the “schussboomers”, Aspen Mtn. is perfect.

 

What is your favorite place to ski here?

Here?

 

Yes

Well we would have to go back a little ways, right now if I were to go skiing I would obviously go to Buttermilk, that’s enough but when I was younger Aspen Mtn. was the fabulous ski mountain, absolutely fabulous.  I’m not saying it’s fabulously used.

 

What makes it so fabulous as a ski mountain?

It’s made for skiing, it’s just a creation for skiing.

 

You mean the terrain?

The terrain yes and everything, everything about it.

 

Did you have a favorite run?

I didn’t no, but people developed their favorite runs yeah.  I was pretty familiar with all of the runs.

I bet you were.  I’m trying to think what else that you didn’t talk about in your book that would be good for me to know and would be good for the Historical Society to know?  Can you think of things?

Well I hope that the Historical Society will put together, I understand that _____ in the making and put together the real story of how Aspen was developed, because it would be a shame to let it fade away.  I think in 100 years from now people will be very interested to know how it happened and why.  So I think that’s a big job.

Yeah, are there parts of the real story that you think need more emphasis than they have been given in the past?

Not really, sometimes I’m a little upset when I read how Mrs. (Elizabeth) Paepcke was trying out the snow and decided this would be a good ski resort.  But of course that’s the press, it’s a free press and they can do anything they want with it.  But I’m a little upset when I read things like that because Mrs. (Elizabeth) Paepcke was a delightful lady and those are just silly things that some reporter wants to become famous with by saying something.  But otherwise…those are just things that come up.

 

Well I was wondering, it seems that most places that become successful ski area they have a few people who love to ski and who really want to develop a ski area and then it seems like there also has to be someone usually from outside who has a lot of financial power who will contribute to the cause.  How would you fit the (Walter and Elizabeth) Paepckes into that picture or would you say that they’re…?

Oh tremendously, absolutely.  I’m not saying that without (Walter) Paepcke I would have failed, I would have found I’m sure somebody else.  But the original financing from (Walter) Paepcke was very useful.  Because I ordered the lifts and the first lifts are not paying any money, but you have to pay it later on.  The time came to pay it and Mr. (Walter) Paepcke took it over and fortunately had to get the company.  If it wasn’t him, somebody else comes up with the money.

 

Right, so would you say that you’ve fulfilled your goals here in Aspen?

Yes, oh yes absolutely, I’d like to see Aspen being a little tamed.  It’s kind of wild, in all directions you know, but it’s like every place else and anything you say can spark it up.  Because Aspen is, it comes as a big shock and I know what we think of that.

 

What are you most proud of in Aspen would you say?

That’s a very broad question.  I can’t answer that.

 

Ok.

It’s very hard to answer that.

 

Yeah, when you came to the United States were you planning to stay for the rest of your life or was that something that just happened?

Hundreds of political circumstances, due to political circumstances yes, I was definitely not planning to stay, but I didn’t set a timetable to start something yes very definitely that was a hard thing to do because I was brought up in a very tight family and to leave it was very difficult.  But it kind of worked out that way.

 

Well is there anything else you would like the Historical Society or the Ski Museum to remember and think about when the try and understand the growth of skiing in Aspen?

Well I would hope that you would put the history together not for us but for the future because it’s really a very beautiful history how we came over the mountains with a gun to learn how to kill and discovered a place like this.  You sort of forget the whole thing and you go on.  But I see some very good signs about the history which is overdue, it should have been done but the people are still here like the first people that came here and they should have a lot to say about the early days and how this all meshed in together.  It was not the (Walter and Elizabeth) Paepckes or me that made Aspen what it was, it was the people who came and enjoyed it as well as we did.  Also history should also know this was a real ski community when I came here, there were some families here in Aspen that ran it, it was a small skiing community, rather than how people saw it.  So it was nothing to go from there with it to make it a resort.

 

Anything else?

Well I’m sure there is a lot we haven’t covered but I can’t, I can’t rattle it off and I don’t want to be predicting of anything because any development has sidelines in it.  That’s a natural thing.

 

Well thank you very much.

I just wish you all the good things, it’s a good thing that you are doing.  It’s a thing that you will enjoy immensely.

 

Oh I can’t wait.

And in times when you get stuck on something that you think that I can help, I’m available all of the time.  I’m saying that I hope you have a list of the people that really lived, they can tell you the real story and there’s not that many around.  It’s a whole thing, talk to people that were here.  You know it’s nice now nobody has to worry about the ski lift anymore, you just ________, there was not such a thing.  Now there’s financial help because _________, but it’s a beautiful story I wish I could write it down the way I felt all those years ago, it was a beautiful story.

Thank you very much.

You’re welcome.