Oral History
Betty & Art Pfister
One 77 minute long oral history with Art & Betty Pfister conducted by Anna L. Scott on September 16, 2006 as part of the Old Timers Oral History Project.
Betty Pfister was one of about 1,000 Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASPs) who flew U.S. military aircraft for the first time during World War II. She married Art Pfister, who she met on the ski slopes of Aspen. They had three daughters, but that did not keep her from flying her own airplane and accomplishing great things for her community.
In 1963, Betty received her commercial rotorcraft rating and in 1966 she planned and supervised the construction of the Aspen Valley Hospital Heliport. This was the first hospital heliport in Colorado, and has been instrumental in saving many lives. Betty has many other accomplishments to her credit.
In 1968, she founded the Pitkin County Air Rescue Group and remained its president until she retired in 1991. This volunteer organization of local pilots initiated searches for downed aircraft and lost skiers in the mountainous regions of Colorado and had saved 32 lives by 2001.
Art Pfister served as an Airforce pilot in WWII and moved to Aspen shortly after the war ended in 1946-47. He flew an airplane as a file supplier salesman
in a region of 10 states while also living in Aspen and managing a 700 Acre ranch at the base of Buttermilk called the Lazy Chair Ranch. He partnered with Freidl Pfiefer to open Buttermilk ski area and joined the board of directors of the Aspen Skiing Corp., were he served until the early 2000s. Pfister eventually sold his share of Buttermilk to the Aspen Skiing Co., and in 1984 the remainder of his ranch was parceled off to family and sold to the Maroon Creek Club golf development.
Betty and Art Pfister oral history interview
Interviewer Anna Scott
September 16, 2006
C234_2006.054.0003
Anna Scott (AS): …history with Art Pfister on the 16th day of September in the year 2006 at the home of the Pfisters in Aspen, Colorado. This is part of the Isabel Mace Oral History Project. Betty Pfister will be helping during the interview. Um, I just want to start off by thanking you, Art, for participating…and, uh…
Art Pfister (AP): Pleasure.
AS: Alright. Could you please state your full name?
AP: Arthur Oral Pfister—P-F-I-S-T-E-R.
AS: Alright. And when you were born and where you were born.
AP: In— in Preston, Minnesota.
AS: Preston, Minnesota. And what year were you born?
AP: 1910.
AS: What month, and day?
AP: August 18.
AS: Alright. And…did you attend school there? Did you grow up in Minnesota?
AP: I— I grew up in Winona, Minnesota, ‘til high school, and the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis.
AS: And how long did you attend…?
AP: Three years at the university.
AS: Three years. And what was your intended major? Or field?
AP: Girls.
AS: Girls! Alright! [laughter]
Betty Pfister (BP): [indistinct in background] He told me he went for two years, now suddenly [you went?] a third year!
AP: [laughing] Took me a second.
AS: That’s alright. Um, when was the first time you actually came to Aspen?
AP: I came here…as I got out of the Air Force in ’46.
AS: In ’46. And you were in the Air Force during World War II?…Um, why did you end up coming to Aspen?
AP: Well, I’d heard all about it.
AS: Who’d you hear it from, about it from?
AP: There was a…
BP: Can I intercede?
AS: M-hm.
BP: I think you were at Camp Hale and you met some of the guys over there who had been to Aspen or were coming…
AP: That’s right. Thank you, Betty. I forgot that.
BP: And Art didn’t know how to ski, and he didn’t know much about snow, but he knew he didn’t like mosquitoes, and he didn’t like Wisconsin and Minnesota, so he thought anything would be better.
AS: Is that true?
AP: I liked the mountains.
AS: You liked the mountains? Alright. So when did you actually move to Aspen? Do you remember?
AP: That day.
AS: That day! So 1946, you made the choice to move to Aspen.
AP: Uh-huh.
AS: And do you remember where you first mo— like, lived, in Aspen?
AP: Yes. I built a house…
AS: Where’d you build it?
AP: As you go into town…
AS: M-hm.
AP: …uh, and you cross the bridge…the second house on the left.
AS: So it was on Main Street?
BP: No, Castle Creek Bridge.
AS: Oh, right across Castle Creek Bridge onto…
BP: If you’re going into town now, it would be the Castle Creek Bridge and then on the left there are a few houses.
AS: Right. Got it. Right on the left. So you were right there…that is actually, what, Hallam Street?
BP: We don’t know the names of the streets. We’ve only lived here 50 years! [laughter] We know what’s near the Wienerstube…
AS: Near where the Hickory House is today…
AP: Yeah.
AS: Or Po— what is the…Poppy…?
BP: Poppy’s. It’s in that area, behind, just behind Poppy’s actually. That’s the closest you can…
AS: Alright. And what did you do for a job, when you moved here?
AP: I had a job, and I still have a job.
AS: What is that?
AP: I sell file folders.
AS: File folders?
AP: Filing supplies.
AS: M-hm.
AP: Paper.
AS: For what company?
AP: Smead, S-M-E-A-D, Manufacturing Company, Hastings, Minnesota.
AS: And, it didn’t matter where you lived? They had a…you were able to live in Aspen and still sell those?
AP: Well, I had a territory outta Aspen. I traveled about…eight or ten states outta here…when I first moved here. Then I kept cutting back.
AS: Cutting back the states? So less travel?…How long did you work for that comp— Well, obviously, you still work for them, but…
AP: 57 years.
AS: Ah. Um, when you first came to town, can you describe what your first…um, what you first saw, how the town looked?
BP: Girls.
[laughter]
AS: Really?
AP: There— there wasn’t much here.
AS: There wasn’t much here?
AP: When I first came to town, there was…I gotta think back…
AS: Yeah, 1946…
AP: ’46. That wasn’t much.
AS: I know there— can you— do you remember some of the people who were here? I know Johnny Litchfield…
AP: You [Betty] weren’t here in ’46. Don’t give me that crap!
BP: I came the first year the lifts opened, just was here for ski season.
AS: Oh, and it opened winter of ’46, ’47…
BP: I think so. Yeah.
AS: December of ’46 is when…
BP: Right.
AS: …the lift actually opened.
BP: And we— we met in the lift line.
AS: So Betty was here. Anybody else?
BP: I was not living here. Just came to ski for a few weeks.
AS: Where were you from?
BP: New York.
AP: That was before the— she came after the skiing started.
AS: Right. Before that was the boat tow, right?
BP: We weren’t here, either one of us, in the boat tow days.
AP: It was just a T-bar.
AS: Okay.
AP: And— and uh, my claim to fame is…Woohoo!
AS: Woohoo?
AP: I started Buttermilk.
AS: Oh yes! We’ll get to that.
AP: Yeah.
[laughter]
AS: So, do you remember any people that— that you kind of hung out with or…where did you guys hang out?
BP: Hotel Jerome, Red Onion.
AP: Red Onion, Hotel Jerome, that’s about all there was. Unless you wanted to go to the grocery store.
AS: Where was the grocery store? Do you remember?
BP: I’ve forgotten myself.
AP: Where was the damn thing?
BP: I think there was one…Tom’s Grocery Store was…
AP: There was…one…
BP: …where Amen Wardy is now, was a big one.
AS: Right.
BP: But I think th—
AP: And earlier than that…
AS: The post office was there at one point.
BP: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. And it was just down the street from the Hotel Jerome, where the drugstore is. The drugstore was on that corner and there…
AS: Uh…Matthew…Sweet?
BP: Matthew’s Drug.
AS: Drug. Matthew’s Drug?…Um…let’s see. Well, we got the…when did you meet Betty. [laughter]…Um, so when did you two— you and Betty actually get married?
BP: 1954.
AP: Thank you, Betty.
[laughter]
BP: April 16th, in Oklahoma. In Tulsa, Oklahoma.
AS: And did you move to Aspen right then?
BP: M-hm.
AP: I had a house here.
AS: And…and did you guys live in that house that you first built?
BP: M-hm.
AS: And then what did you do? I— I know you went into ranching a little bit. Was that right?
AP: Did what?
AS: Ranching? You bought a ranch?
AP: Well I had bought this ranch, yes.
AS: And how many acres was the ranch?
AP: 700.
AS: 700? Um, what did you…did you raise cattle, or…?
AP: Yes…raised…cattle…put up hay, did all the farming.
BP: Then we went from cattle to horses. Thought we could lose as much money with horses and have a lot more fun.
[laughter]
AP: Yeah, I started in the horse— in the Quarter horse business then.
AS: M-hm.
BP: And Norwegian Fjords.
AP: But I got to ride a horse!
BP: Right.
AS: So it was more fun? Did you guys participate in any of the…4-H?
BP: Not the 4-H, but we did all th—
AS: Rodeos?
BP: In fact, I have a wonderful picture of the silver stamp that the sheriff’s posse…
AP: I didn’t hear the question.
AS: Uh, participate in 4-H or rodeos, and she’s gonna show us something.
AP: Yeah.
AS: How long did you ranch, and what year did you buy the ranch, do you remember?
BP: Well we still haven’t finished— we just barely finished paying for it now.
AP: I bought it in ’46, didn’t I, Betty?
BP: No, I don’t think so. This is— I don’t know if you have a copy of that at the Historical, but it’s a treasure.
AS: Oh, it’s beautiful.
BP: And then here is all, here is all the people… [fades off]
AS: This is a picture of the sheriff’s posse in Aspen, Colorado in 1958…on the courthouse steps.…And Art Pfister…
BP: And I think there are 13, 13 people in that picture, 13 men.
AS: And Art Pfister is in the third row on this, in this picture. We’ll have to…take a picture of that. Um…
BP: Only two or three of those men are still…alive…
AS: So you were actually then part of the sheriff’s posse?
AP: Started it.
AS: Start— You started it?
BP: No, the sheriff is always the head of it, whoever’s sheriff at the time. This guy’s…
AS: Right. Do you remember…
BP: Lauren Herwick. Dirty Herwick, was his name.
AS: Dirty Herwick. And he was the sheriff?
AP and BP: Uh-huh.
AS: And then he…
BP: …put together a posse of all these…
AS: Of all the men? Keep the town in order?
AP: We did our best.
AS: How long did you do that for, do you remember?
AP: Just a little. Not long. I was on the…
BP: You were president of the Silver Stampeders, don’t forget that. You want me to keep interjecting as I recall things?
AS: Um…so you were ranching, and it looks like you were part of the poss— the sheriff’s posse.
AP: And I was raising— I was raising Quarter horses.
AS: Raising Quarter horses…um, and then you ended up getting involved with Friedl Pfeifer? Is that right? With Buttermilk?
AP: Yeah.
AS: Is that because your ranch is right next to…
AP: Yeah.
AS: How’d you get involved?
AP: Well, first place…he’s a friend and we skied together.
BP: He taught you how to ski, would be more accurate.
AP: Yeah, I skied with him, yeah. And he taught me how to ski. But we were good friends. And it was hard to be a good friend of Friedl’s. He didn’t have many…friends.
AS: ‘Cause he was…
AP: But he was a good guy. And we got along fine.
AS: And then you came…
AP: Bring back memories, for Christ’s sakes. What am I doing here?
AS: You like that— [laughter] You like to bring back those memories?
AP: Uh-huh.
AS: [laughing] Can you remember…what you guys did, or how you guys came up with the idea?
BP: How about the night we named it “Buttermilk”, the reason for that?
AP: [mumbling] Was it right here?
BP: At Friedl’s house.
AP: At Friedl’s house.
BP: We kept mixing up different batches…of drinks until we could hardly stand up! We somehow got the idea of buttermilk. One of them had buttermilk in it. We decided that was a good name for a beginning ski area.
AP: That’s where it happened.
AS: Alright. So which was the first lift for Buttermilk? Did you guys start…with Tiehack…
AP: No, I…
AS: Or did you start over on the other…
AP: No, I— I— I put in a t-bar.
AS: You put in a t-bar? Where the current…um…
AP: Number 1 is.
AS: Number, yeah, where, on Main Buttermilk…
AP: On the bottom of the hill. Yeah.
AS: How far did that go up?
AP: It went up all the way to where the top of the first lift is now, Midway. It was a good lift.
AS: T-bar. That’s a long ways to take a t-bar.
AP: And it was fast.
BP: No, actually we put in a single chair.
AS: Okay.
BP: Yeah. But a t-bar was over on the real bunny part of the slope…
AS: Like the Panda Peak area?
BP: Exactly.
AS: And then there was a t— then there was a Lift 1…
BP: Yeah.
AS: …up…Was it a fast lift?
AP: It was a beautiful place. We really had a good time.
AS: Did you spend much time skiing there?
AP: Pardon?
AS: Did you spend much time skiing there?
AP: Every day.
AS: Every day?
AP: I was still working, though, you know, I had— I’d go out— I’d make a trip, for a week or two, then I’d come home for a week or two, then I’d go out for a week or two…then I had an airplane and I’d…and I’d…
AS: You’d f— would you fly to your different sales areas?
AP: Oh, all the…
BP: Only after you met me.
AP: Pardon?
BP: Only after you met me. You were very anti-aviation when I first met you. He used to have a baby blue Cadillac and he’d be gone two or three weeks at a time.
AS: And why were you anti-aviation at that…?
AP: Pardon?
AS: Do you remember why you were anti-aviation until you met Betty?
AP: I don’t think I was.
BP: Well, you didn’t exactly enjoy your experience in India, China, and Burma.
AP: [mumbles] No. I wouldn’t want to go back there and try it again either. [laughter] That was in World War II.
AS: Right. It was just…
AP: Terrible place. India…
AS: I understand.
AP: That’s enough.
AS: Just from the look on your face. So when you came back, you weren’t into flying so much until you met Betty.
AP: Well I was flying. I— I was determined to be a private pilot…’cause I already had my…license and everything.
AS: Did you become a private pilot at all?
AP: Hmm?
AS: Did you ever become a private pilot? I mean, for…
BP: Yeah.
AS: For some— for working with people, other people?
BS: No, just…
[all talking simultaneously]
AS: Just for yourself.
AP: As a job?
AS: Right.
AP: No, just for myself.
AS: Just for yourself.
AP: Because I had a job with Smead Manufacturing Company, and as soon as I got out of the Air Force, I went back to work. And I traveled my territory of 11 states. I bought an airplane…somewhere in there, but…
AS: Makes…
AP: I was single. I had a lot of money.
AS: [laughing] That’s how you wooed Betty, huh?
[all laughing]
BP: Well, the sequence is a little wrong there, that’s why.
AS: You bought the plane after you guys got together?
BP: No, I already had an airplane. I had two airplanes when we got married. And he made me sell one of them [sad voice]. It was a little fighter plane that’s in the air museum now.
AS: Oh wow.
BP: But it…never made it to Aspen.
AS: [laughing] Well, so we go back to…that you guys, you started Buttermilk with Friedl Pfeifer…um, how long did you stay…
BP: What year was that? I don’t know.
AS: I know he started it around nineteen-fifty…Buttermilk started around 1958?
BP: Yeah, I think the same year Highlands did?
AS: I think so.
AP: Same year, I think.
BP: I think so too.
AS: How…I know Friedl sold it to the Ski Company not long after…Was that partly with…?
AP: I was the director of the Ski Company then.
AS: Okay. You were the director of the Ski Company? Is that…?
BP: A director.
AS: A director.
AP: I was on the board.
AS: The board of directors. And the Ski Company decided to buy Buttermilk?
AP: I talked them into it.
AS: You talked them into it? Nice!
AP: [laughing]
AS: How long were you on the board of directors?
AP: How long was I on the board?
BP: We can’t remember. I even asked Sue Smedstad, who was Darcy’s secretary, and know [sic] everything about it, and she couldn’t quite remember. She made— I made some notes. Darcy Brown was president of the Ski Company from ’59 to ’79…for a 20-year period. And Marvin Davis dissolved the board in 1981. We think Art came onboard…on the board between ’58 and ’62 but somehow all those records got lost, all the minutes of their meetings and…so nobody’s too sure about the dates that anything happened.
AS: Okay. When did you and Betty start having children?
BP: Practically immediately.
AP: That’s what we got married for…
AS: [laughing]
AP: …to have kids.
AS: [laughing] And how many children did you have?
BP: Three.
AP: Three…or ten or twelve, or I don’t know…three.
AS: Ten or twelve! [laughing] What are their names, Betty?
BP: The oldest one is Suzanne…
AS: Suzanne.
BP: They’re all girls. And the next one is Nancy. And the youngest one is Christina.
AS: Um…and were they involved in 4-H or any organizations around…?
BP: Mm-mm.
AS: No? No ranching?
BP: Well they all loved to ride and go on pack trips with us and so forth.
AS: Did you guys go on a lot of pack trips?
AP: M-hm.
AS: Yeah? Where— where would you go around here? Do you remember some places?
AP: Oh…yeah…that’s before they had anything up at Maroon Lake, you know. There wasn’t even a road up there then…just a track. And we’d go…Warren Lake…
BP: Do you know where that is?
AP: …[indistinct] up this way…
BP: Good for you.
AP: All over.
AS: What are your favorite places that you can remember?
AP: I don’t remember. [sing-song] I don’t remember!
AS: That’s okay.
BP: We went up to Snowmass Lake and Willow Lake and Cathedral and…a lot of the high country lakes. Camp out for a few days.
AP: That’s right.
AS: And you’d take— you’d go on the horses?
BP: M-hm.
AP: Pretty soon I was sitting around here and…at the ranch and…one time I had a hundred head of horses.
AS: A hundred head of horses?
BP: We never had a hundred at once. Over the years we easily did but never that many at one time.
AS: How many would you have at once?
BP: Oh, more like 7 or 8.
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: Maybe ten.
AP: Anyhow, I was busy.
AS: You were busy? Well good.
AP: And I still worked for Smead.
BP: And he still does today. They still pay him. They paid him all the time he was in China, Burma, India theatre. And, uh…they paid him ever since he first walked in the door.
AS: Huh.
BP: So that’s pretty neat.
AS: That is neat.
BP: He’s had one job his whole life.
AS: That’s…I’d say…
AP: Isn’t that enough?
AS: Very few people have ever had…have worked at one place all their life. [laughing]
AP: Yeah.
BP: For sixty-five years or something like that.
AP: That sounds like a long time, Betty.
BP: The president of Smead…it’s a women…a woman president. She was here for his birthday about two weeks ago. She’s one of our best friends, and we like her very much.
AS: So…over the years, were you involved in any other kinda organizations or groups around Aspen?
BP: I was but Art pretty much was busy with his traveling and Smead.
AP: I had to work.
AS: You had to work. [laughing] And you had your kids and the ranch, right?
AP: I…liked to get involved in local things, but…nothing…
AS: Well I hear that you, um…at some point, bought property around Woods Lake? Is that right?
AP: Yeah, bought Woods Lake Ranch.
AS: And where is that exactly located?
BP: Up the Frying Pan…up past Ruedi.
AS: Up past Ruedi.
BP: Meredith, Thomasville.
AP: To the end of the road going east.
AS: Okay, towards Hagerman Pass.
AP: Yeah.
AS: Alright. And do you still visit that area?
BP: We just sold our interest, just about a week ago, or two weeks ago.
AP: We did?
BP: We did.
AP: Who to?
BP: Nikos Hecht. Do you know…Andy Hecht? Or heard the name?
AS: I’ve heard the last name.
BP: He’s a lawyer and his son Nikos…
AS: That’s right.
BP: …bought our interest.
AS: Okay.
BP: Four of us owned it together.
AS: Who were the four people who owned it?
BP: Well John Denver was an owner before he was killed, and his wife Annie is an owner today. And a lady named Fran Dittmer?
AS: What was that…Ditt-?
BP: Dittmer.
AS: Dittmer.
BP: And, uh…Mary Hughes Scott.
AS: Mary Hughes…
AP: Boy, uh…that’s a great place.
AS: Can you describe it to me?
AP: Oh…it’s at ninety-four hundred feet. It’s uh…how many acres, Betty?
BP: I’ve never been sure…a couple hundred acres surrounded by forest. [indistinct]
AP: Two or three hundred acres. Two lakes on it…twenty-acre lakes, thirty acres. We built a…couple very nice houses up there.
BP: There are about 30 cabins. It was a fishing resort before we bought it. And…
AS: Back in…when did you guys buy it?
BP: We were trying to think the other day. About 35 or 40 years ago.
AS: So about 196–, late-19-, mid-1960s?
BP: Probably.
AS: And it was a fishing resort before that?
AP: Who owns it now?
BP: I just went through the names again, Art. I’ll tell…Franny Dittmer, Annie Denver, Mary Hughes Scott, and Nikos and Allison Hecht.
AP: I don’t have any interest in it at all.
BP: Just…
AS: Not anymore.
BP: Not anymore. And the one of our children who’s been going by far the most ‘cause she lives here in Aspen and she loves it is Suzanne. And she has two boys that have had a wonderful time for the last…let’s see, one of them’s 12 years old and the other one’s nine. So practically all their lives at Woods Lake, from the time they were old enough to…go up there.
AS: Were they able to uh…
AP: It’s at 94…
AS: …rent it from…the group at all?
BP: No, we don’t rent at all. We never have.
AP: It’s at ninety-four hundred…feet…
AS: Elevation?
AP: Yeah.
BP: Elevation.
AS: Wow. Sounds beautiful. Um, now I know that you obviously don’t own the whole ranch anymore, the 700 hundred and something acres around here. About when did you…sell it off?
AP: We own it all, don’t we?
BP: No, we sold a whole chunk for the golf course, for the Maroon…
AP: Oh, that’s right. For the golf course.
AS: Right, and you…about when was that?
BP: Seven or eight years ago, I’m guessing [indistinct]…
AP: A little more than that.
BP: Maroon Creek…
AP: Fifteen years ago, probably.
BP: Well, they had to build the golf course…probably eight…I don’t know. Eight or ten years ago.
AS: Okay.
AP: I’m the one…
AS: Some time in the mid-‘90s…
AP: I’m the one that got the golf course started.
AS: Did you get it started?
BP: Well we sold to the developers.
AP: [indistinct] I had it all…worked out.
AS: You helped them work it out?
AP: Yeah.
AS: And then what? Now, am I correct that you kept some of the land for your daughters?
BP: Yes, up on West Buttermilk.
AS: On West Buttermilk. So your property went…
BP: But the ranch is not a nice rectangular square. It goes uh-puh-puh-puh all over the place.
AS: So it went across Buttermilk, or at…and up to West Buttermilk?
BP: M-hm.
AS: So, at some point you owned part of B– Buttermilk?
BP: Definitely.
AS: And then you sold that part to the Ski Company, or…?
AP: I started the Buttermilk.
AS: Yeah. And that’s probably why, ‘cause you owned part of the land, right?
AP: Yeah.
BP: Exactly.
AP: I owned it all.
BP: Friedl had some.
AS: Right. And you…
AP: At that point I owned it all.
AS: You did?
BP: Well, Friedl owned some.
AS: Friedl owned some of it?
BP: Friedl Pfeifer…
AP: One of the cabins…where the lifts are, right on the base…I didn’t own.
AS: Oh, okay.
AP: The rest of it, I did.
AS: And then you owned part of West Buttermilk area?
BP and AP: Yeah.
AP: And that’s all on the ranch.
AS: And where was the…I guess, southern si— end of the ranch?
BP: I think right about where some of the townhomes are, out here, that you…they would have been on your right when you were driving in.
AS: Okay.
BP: We had a…a horse barn…and stable there. Guest house there. It’s all changed a lot in the last…last few years.
AS: So when did you actually build the house that you have here?
BP: We built it in…’54.
AS: 1954?
BP: Yup. We’d just had our…
AP: I’m still paying for it.
AS: Are you? [laughing] Well, it’s a beautiful house.
AP: It’s a good location.
AS: It is. It’s a very good location. Um…is it right on the edge of where the ran— I guess you’ve got the golf course all around you?
BP: Yeah…surrounded by golf.
AP: Well, I own all the way down to the road, down to the highway.
AS: Oh, oh, you do?
BP: No, we don’t, but the golf course does.
AP: Well…
AS: But you did?
BP: M-hm, we did.
AS: It went all the way to the road, to 82…
BP: Right. There’s a road that used to be the end of the ranch, right at the Maroon Creek bridge. It was a terrible turn, before they did the underpass. You could sit there for 10 or 20 minutes, waiting to get a break in traffic to get out there!
AS: When did they change that?
BP: When did they do the underpass? Which we all thought was going to be terrible and it turned out to really…
AS: Be wonderful?
[laughing]
BP: I hate to say it, but it is! Uh, I don’t know. I get mixed up on dates.
AS: Okay, that’s alright. You’ve seen a bunch of changes happen in Aspen, a lot of people go through.
AP: M-hm.
AS: Can you remember some names of people? I know you were friends with Red Rowland, is that right?
AP: Red Rowland was…
BP: He’s in the picture too. He was in the sheriff’s posse.
AS: I see.
BP: I gave a copy of this picture to his wife, Peggy, about a month ago.
AP: Did you?
BP: She was tickled. She knows everybody in it.
AS: Well, there’s Leroy Waterman…
AP: Yeah.
AS: Remember that name?
BP: He had Waterman’s filling station on the edge of town, right where the s-turns begin.
AS: [laughing] We’ve got Red Rowland. Can you tell me something about Red Rowland?
AP: He was my best friend.
AS: Was he your best friend?
AP: Probably.
BP: He was a very close friend.
AP: He was— we were great friends and…we were even greater friends when I bought this ranch because we were…sort of…both si— I was single, we were both single. And uh…this ranch is good.
AS: Well he was kind of a ranching guy himself, right?
AP: Yeah, he was, uh-huh. He helped me get the ranch started.
AS: Did he? Yeah, I know he was known for riding horses around.
BP: Right.
AP: He’s really…he was really a nice…
BP: Have you talked with his wife, Peggy? Good.
AP: He was nice.
AS: He was nice. You guys, um…did he help you work the fa— work the ranch? Hay and…?
BP: No. Not really.
AS: No?
AP: What?
BP: If— if, uh, if Red helped you hay.
AP: No.
AS: No.
AP: We hired a couple guys to do the labor.
AS: Smart. So we have Mike Magnifico.
AP: What?
AS: Mike Magnifico? Do you remember him?
BP: He had a ski shop here.
AP: He’s on the picture.
AS: Yeah, he’s in the picture. Just going…Oh, we have Had Deane. Had Deane…
BP: Whose little boy is in the paper today for catching some big fish.
AP: T-Lazy-7.
AS: Yeah, he owned T-Lazy-7. Were you guys good friends?
AP: Yeah.
AS: Yeah? I mean, his ranch is just up the road from here.
AP: Yeah.
AS: Um…George Christianson?
AP: Who?
AS: George Christianson? No? Um, how about Bob Burlingame?
AP: I can’t remember.
BP: We didn’t know him that well.
AS: Uh, Walt…did we already do Walt Matthews?
AP: I don’t remember.
AS: Jack Ray?
AP: Yeah.
AS: I know you know Dr. Baxter, right?
AP: Yeah.
AS: We just saw him at the Old Timers’.
BP: Yeah.
AS: Any other names you remember from the…um…
AP: No, no.
AS: …early days?
AP: That’s enough.
AS: You getting tired?
AP: No. [laughing] I think it’s enough for you all. I love that picture.
AS: It’s a good picture. Um…so we kinda hit into the…let’s say, ‘60s. Do you remember the ‘60s much around here? This is after you sold Buttermilk, or got Ski Company to [have?] Buttermilk and…kids were born. Do you remember what town was like then?
AP: Wasn’t much.
AS: Wasn’t much in the ‘60s? Lots of building going on?
AP: Not much.
BP: I thought so.
AS: You can go ahead.
AP: What year did we get married?
BP: ’54.
AP: Hmm. [pause] I don’t know.
AS: Let’s see…what do you remember about the ‘60s, about the ‘60s in Aspen? It’s kinda hard…
BP: Yeah, people…
AS: It’s going back.
BP: More people were coming to town. And, uh…I don’t know. I haven’t particular…
AS: Snowmass hadn’t been started, so you really had most of the ski area in this area.
BP: Seemed like it. M-hm.
AS: Do you remember Highlands getting started?
BP: No, but we stayed with the…they had separate tickets for the, uh, Ski Company mountains, for…I guess…Highlands was always separate, seems to me.
AS: Right.
AP: It was owned differently.
BP: Yeah, and we could—
AS: Whip Jones?
BP: Exactly.
AS: And I know Had Deane sold him part of his ranch…
BP: Right.
AS: Do you remember that?
BP: Had’s little grandson is in the Aspen Times today, or one of the two papers, catching a big fish in Alaska.
AP: Who was he?
BP: Little Had Deane. He would’ve been Had Deane’s grandson, or is Had…
AP: Is he in the paper today?
BP: Yeah, catching…he’s about 7 or 8 years old and he made the Book of Records, for catching the biggest…I think it’s a salmon or a trout. I’m not sure.
AP: Where?
AS: In Alaska.
BP: In Alaska.
AP: Oh. It’d be a salmon.
BP: He’s Buck Deane’s son.
AS: Anything else you want to add to…that you remember about Aspen? Your feelings towards Aspen?
BP: He just loved it. We both have, ever since we started to live here, and everybody…
AP: I had a house in town.
AS: Right.
AP: Right on the…just at the Maroon Creek bridge.
AS: Or the Castle Creek bridge?
AP: Castle Creek, yeah. Castle Creek, yeah.
AS: When you did your house, were there a lot of houses around there?
BP: Not very many. About three or four.
AP: Not many.
AS: Most of the Victorian houses in pretty bad shape?
AP: A few of them. They were in bad shape, though.
AS: They were in bad shape? [indistinct]
AP: If anybody wanted to live, they’d build a house.
AS: Did they?
AP: Yeah. [laughing]
BP: What was the name of the guy that wanted the truck? Remember…when you built the first house? I can’t think of his name.
AS: And you had a Chevy or something?
AP: Who?
BP: The contractor. Horace…Horace Hendricks.
AP: Yeah, he built my house.
BP: But he wasn’t going to build any house, then you said you’d buy him a truck if he’d build a house for you?
AS: Or give him your Chevy truck or something?
BP: Yeah, there’s…some funny story there.
AP: Wasn’t very hard to do. [laughing] I just did it!
AS: [Like every good story?] But he ga— he told him…
BP: Yeah.
AS: …if he did it at cost, that he’d give him his truck?
BP: Yeah.
AS: That you would give your truck to this gentleman if he built the house for cost?
AP: Yeah.
AS: And that would be his payment? And it was a brand new truck?
BP: I think so.
AP: Oh yeah, brand new and didn’t cost much at all…less than $2000…a lot less, I think. Something like 1300.
AS: Right. Well that was back in the ‘40s, right?
BP: ‘50s.
AS: ‘50s? Early ‘50s? Um…anything else you’d like to say about?
AP: I like to look at that picture.
As: You like to look at that…well, we’re going to take a picture of this so that we have it on record so people know what…you’re looking at. Can you point yourself out?
AP: Not a damn thing.
AS: Isn’t that you? Is that you?
AP: Yeah.
AS: Okay.
AP: That’s me.
AS: They’re in all-white suits, except for the sheriff. White hats.
AP: Yup, white hats.
AS: Very clean-looking bunch.
AP: We kept this county in shape!
AS: [laughing]
BP: And the sheriff used to land, I used to land on the highways [on nights? sometimes?] when the…airport wasn’t ploughed out, and the sheriff loved to stop traffic, so he’d get on radio and get someone else to let me land on the highway. It was kind of fun in those days. Couldn’t get away with it now.
AS: Oh no! Yeah, that’d be great. Did they use, um…various, like, headlights and stuff to help…?
BP: They did sometimes when people would fly around after dark. And one of them was Art Pfister.
AS: Oh yeah? Was there a story there?
BP: Well, I can just remember…didn’t we use a telephone booth was your landing light there? Remember?
AP: Yes.
BP: Something about using the phone booth…
AP: I thought I could find the airport.
AS: With a telephone booth?
BP: That was about the only light…
AP: There was a light in the telephone booth.
AS: Oh!
[laughing]
AP: But I knew where it was!
AS: Right, because it was right by the airport?
BP: Exactly.
AP: Yeah. It was right…
BP: At the airport…
AS: At the airport so people could make phone calls…
AP: Right at the airport.
[laughing]
BP: Yeah. That was the only way to come in at night.
AS: Did they have daily flights into Aspen, at the airport?
BP: They were just starting to have them, I can’t remember when.
AP: I don’t think so.
BP: There was a pilot…
AP: First they would flew…they flew two or three times a week. Then finally they got daily.
BP: Whenever they had enough people that wanted to…sign up to go.
AS: When was the airport built? Do you remember?
BP: Oh, I’ve forgotten.
AP: [indistinct] Before 1946…
BP: It was just a mud strip…
AP: About…
BP: …in those days, and then in the spring, when it was hot, the mud would melt and you’d have to land here before 10 in the morning or after 3 in the afternoon.
AS: When it froze up again?
BP: Exactly.
AS: Ah, so you had to time your landings?
AP: You’d better be careful!
[laughing]
AS: Um…and then it was just one strip?
BP: I know. Burt Simons was one of the earliest pilots.
AS: Burt Simons?
BP: I’m not sure if he’s still with us or not.
AS: I’ll have to look.
BP: I have a feeling…and he played polo.
AP: Who?
BP: Burt Simons?
AP: Oh yeah.
BP: Do you remember Burt? He had a twin Cessna.
AS: What kind of plane did you have?
BP: We had a Cessna, a single-engine Cessna, for a long time. And then Art tipped over at the airport…once.
AP: Hit a snowdrift.
BP: Hit a big snowdrift. And the plane was new that morning. We’d never had a new plane before. We always had…old ones.
AS: Used ones.
BP: And this one…was very [indistinct]. And we went up and got up on the prop and sat there like that for, it seemed like an hour. It was probably ten seconds. And then it…flipped right over, there was so much snow.
AS: [laughing]
BP: And as we were upside down, I sat there and I said, “I told you so!” And Art said, “I hate people who say, ‘I told you so!’”
[all laughing]
BP: So that’s been an old family joke. Luckily we weren’t hurt.
AS: Yeah, no kidding.
AP: Oh, I w—I was…dead stopped.
AS: Dead stop…? Yeah, well, and was your motor still running?
BP: Oh, the minute the prop hit the ground, that was it.
AS: Oh, it stopped? Got it. Um, the airport…so when did it get paved? Do we know…about?
AP: What’s that?
BP: I was responsible for the first traffic controllers, FAA traffic controllers here, for getting…
AS: At the Aspen airport?
BP: Yeah.
AS: And why is that?
BP: Well, because we were about to have a mid-air collision. It was a question of not are we going to, it was just when we were going to, in my opinion. And you have to land one direction usually, and take off the opposite, ‘cause of the pitch in the runway. And uh…I kept asking the FAA to come here and look at it, and they thought I was just a hysterical old lady in tennis shoes. And pretty soon they did come and boy, the next day they said, “We’re going to send you controllers.”
AS: And when was that?
BP: You know, I don’t know. Uh…a long time ago, they sent us a little National Guard tower. It was just before Christmas. And then my job was to find a place for these three men to live.
AS: This is in the ‘60s or…?
BP: Yeah, probably. Early ’60s. I’m not sure of the dates at all.
AS: As…as traffic coming into Aspen increa…increased.
BP: Oh, it was increasing all the time.
AP: Early ‘60s.
AS: Early ‘60s?
BP: Yeah. One of the men’s…I can’t remember his name. He stayed here a long time. The rest of them would come and work here six months or a year and…
AP: What’s the name?
BP: Forgotten.
AP: I’ve forgotten too.
BP: But I remember stopping everybody that I knew going down the street, and I’d say, “Do you have a coffeepot? Have you got a chair? Do you have a table?” [laughing] Shorty Pabst gave me the use of his old farmhouse…
AS: Who was— who did?
BP: Shorty Pabst.
AS: Oh, Shorty Pabst.
BP: Yeah.
AS: And where was that at?
BP: At his ranch, which was down the road about ten miles somewh— Old Snowmass, I guess.
AS: Okay.
BP: And uh, he had the house but it was totally unfurnished, so I was snagging everything from a bed to a table for these first few controllers to live. And it worked. It wasn’t fancy but it worked.
AS: Now, I know now they land depending on the wind, right?
BP: It’s all depends on the wind.
AS: But back then it was because of the actual…there was a pitch to the…?
BP: Well there still is.
AS: There is?
BP: It’s the— just the ground there.
AS: And how— it just— it’s at an angle slightly?
BP: M-hm.
AS: And it was more conducive to landing in certain directions?
BP: Exactly.
AS: Do you remember which way you’d have to land?
BP: Can’t remember now. I can’t remember the name of the first controller. Very short fellow…
AP: Right side up!
AS: Right side up! [laughing] You’d just want to land right side up!
[all laughing]
AS: Um…so the airport. Uh…since you guys are so involved in the air plans, it’s a good…probably an area that not many people have talked about. Um…wasn’t it Paepcke that helped get the airport started, established? Do you remember?
BP: No, I don’t know, but he would’ve been a likely person to have…
AS: Because that was part of the Stapleton ranch…
BP: You’re way ahead of me on…
AS: Oh! [laughing]
BP: Your young memory, you know? [pause] I don’t know.
AS: But it started off as just one strip.
BP: Still is.
AS: Is it just one strip?
BP: It’s all we’ve got.
AS: Wow, I never realized that. [laughing]
BP: Oh yeah. It’s 1-5 or 3-3, meaning 150 degrees or it’s 330 degrees, is the, what do you call it? The opposite of that…so you take…
AS: 180?
BP: [laughing] Thank you. I can’t think…My mind is gone, I think.
AS: It’s okay. So, so…
BP: You normally would be taking off on 3-3…
AS: Okay.
BP: …to the— to the northwest.
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: Or you’re coming back in on the southeast, and the same runway, just opposite ends.
AS: Okay. So there you go, you do remember which way you do…
BP: Just barely.
[laughing]
AS: Um…are we losing you over here? Are you getting tired?
AP: I’m always tired.
AS: Are you always tired? Well now we’ve kind of gone into…re— uh, recording Betty’s history a little bit. [laughing]
BP: Well, I’ve always been interested in aviation, more than Art, I think. He…Art flew because the airplane was a way to get him where he wanted to go, as a business tool, quicker than he could driving the car. But I flew for the sheer joy. I would go take somebody up and just circle around the hills and have a wonderful time, come back in and land. I flew for pleasure and he flew for business.
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: [indistinct]
AS: What— how did you get into flying, originally?
BP: I flew during the war.
AS: You did?
BP: Only in America, only in the US.
AS: ‘Cause they wouldn’t let you fly…?
BP: Pardon?
AS: They— would they not let you fly out, or…?
BP: No, no women flew overseas. There were about 25 American women that did fly in England, but they were more experienced and I didn’t…meet that qualification.
AS: Oh, okay. But you flew around…?
BP: But I flew military planes during the war. I was in the WASP, which was neat.
AS: I saw that you made the Hall of Fame for that, or what, for…They have a…?
BP: Yeah.
AS: That’s great. And when were you born, and where?
BP: Oh, well…I was born in Great Neck, New York in 19…21. July 23rd.
AS: And what was your maiden…
AP: When did you come here, Betty?
BP: I came here in ’46, but this is when I was born.
AP: Oh.
AS: And what…
AP: You remember that?
BP: Just the way you do. [laughing] You know your social security number. I have to look mine up all the time.
[laughing]
AS: Um…and then you came to— wh— what made you come to Aspen for the first time?
BP: To, uh, ski. I was already…uh, skiing, and a…
[First side of interview over]
BP: …got to Aspen.
AS: …how it is you got to Aspen.
BP: Well, I was working in the ski shop in New York City at Saks Fifth Avenue…and uh, I would, in the course of fitting these gals with ski pants, just casually say to them, “Where are you going to ski?” And quite a few of them were saying, “Aspen, it’s just opened up. This…new place in— in Colorado.” So that…I got curious and quit my job and came out here and…
AS: So you quit your job and came here…
BP: M-hm.
AS: …to live. Okay.
BP: Well I worked for four years— it’s a long story…
AS: [laughing]
BP: …as a stewardess with Pan-Am and they liked people who wanted winter vacations ‘cause most of their employees all wanted summer ones.
AS: Oh.
BP: And so they were very happy to give me time off for my two or three—I forget—two- or three-week vacation each year…
AS: Okay.
BP: …to, uh, come to Aspen.
AS: So you were a stewardess too? Is that how you…
BP: Yeah.
AS: And, after the war, before…
BP: M-hm.
AS: …coming to Aspen full-time, or did you live here full-time and…
BP: Oh no, I was living in New York for two, two and a half years of the four years, and then San Francisco for another two years.
AS: But you had met Art at the— that— during that time?
BP: Yeah. But we didn’t exactly rush into getting married. It took us…either four years or six years. I’ve forgotten! [laughing]
AS: So you dated her for quite a while, huh?
BP: You had two more girlfriends named Betty, and he’d just say, “Betty, darling!” As long as he remembered the Betty part, he had it made!
[laughing]
AS: Is that true? No? [laughing]
AP: I’d better say, “Yes.”
AS: [laughing]
BP: And one of them was a very nice girl and the other one was just awful, but he thought she was nice, of course.
AP: She was pretty nice…
AS: And you were the nice girl?
BP: No, there was another one. There were three of us all together.
AS: Oh, there were three Bettys? Or three girls?
BP: Three— Three Bettys, among— among his…bunch of girlfriends.
AS: Entourage?
BP: Entourage is a perfect word.
AS: [laughing] So you were quite the handsome fellow, then?
AP: Available.
AS: Available! [laughing]
BP: Did I tell you the story of how we met?
AS: Hmm? Oh, at the ski lift line?
BP: Yeah. But about the little sign he had around his neck?
AS: No.
BP: Well, I just was there, and…
AP: You don’t have to tell that story!
AS: Oh yes, we do.
BP: Well I think it’s very…
AS: This is…
BP: …interesting.
AS: This is for future generations to know.
BP: Art had a sign that, just about this size, a piece of cardboard around his neck and…on a string. And there was another fellow with him that had the identical sign. Turned out, it was his best friend and house guest. And the sign said, “We are the 2281 Club [Twenty-two eighty-one]. If you think we’re attractive, we are available.”
[laughing]
BP: And they’d cruise up and down the lift line over by Norway housing. And I, hmm, they are both pretty attractive, but I thought he was the more attractive of the two. And I memorized 2281, which was his phone number.
AS: Oh!
BP: The old days…
AS: Giving out your phone number! You only needed the four digits?
BP: Four digits. So…
AP: It worked.
BP: It worked.
AS: I guess it did!
BP: And the other one, his partner in crime, was Wilton Jaffee, Sr….
AS: Oh!
BP: …who was a very close friend of ours.
AS: And you guys walked up and down the…
BP: They just cruised up and down the lift line a little bit.
AP: We cruised the lift line. The lift line was from here to the…turn out here. [laughing]
AS: It would— it would be long?
BP: Yeah, but you could come and put your skis down in the snow. You could come out in your jammies if you wanted, from Holland House, put your skis in the snow, and then you’d go back in and have breakfast and come back. No one would touch those skis or…move them, or anything. It was kind of an honor system. It was pretty nice.
AP: That didn’t last long.
AS: Lasted for a little while?
BP: Quite a while.
AS: So town…I mean, people were pretty casual back then?
BP: Oh yeah. If someone was having a party, everybody was welcome to come. They’d say, “Party at Art Pfister’s house tonight” and…
AS: Two two eight one.
BP: You got it.
AS: [laughing]
BP: Not “Two two eight one,” “Twenty-two eighty-one.”
AS: Oh, twenty-two eighty-one.
BP: Same thing, but [indistinct]. But everybody knew Art.
AS: How’d you come up with those signs, do you remember?
BP: They just wanted to meet a few more girls.
AP: I was chasing girls.
AS: That’s all that was on your mind, huh?
AP: Yeah. It really was.
AS: Well at least you’re honest about it.
AP: Yeah, I— I— I thought it was the thing to do at my age.
AS: And how old were you back then?
AP: About a hundred and two.
BP: He was about forty-…
AP: No, I was about…
BP: …-three or -four.
AP: …twenty-three, -five.
BP: Well you were forty-something when we got married. And this was…a couple years before we got married, I guess.
AS: You were 40 when you got married?
BP: Fort— Art was. Art was forty-…
AP: How old am I now?
BP: You have to stop and think. You’re 96 now.
AP: I couldn’t be.
BP: Well you just were, last month.
AP: I couldn’t be!
AS: [laughing]
AP: I don’t feel 96.
AS: Good.
BP: You don’t look 96 and you don’t act…whatever that’s…
AS: Supposed to be?
BP: …supposed to be.
AS: Um…so you had— you guy— where woul— where would you stay when you came to Aspen?
BP: Stayed at the, uh…Awful Albert for a while, the Prince Albert Hotel, which is now The Independence.
AS: Why did you guys call it the Awful Albert?
BP: ‘Cause it was pretty bad, for about $2 a night, and I didn’t even have a window that co— you could open or any [laughing]…it was like living in a closet!
AS: [laughing]
BP: And, uh…I came out with a girlfriend of mine one time. We shared a room there. I think it was $2 a night, with cooking. We had a hotplate and a little fridge and…it was pretty nice.
AS: And then, uh…and you would just every time stay there, or did you stay at other places?
BP: Other places. I can’t even remember the names. But I always remember the Awful Albert.
AS: That’s great. And did you have a favorite restaurant you went to?
BP: Yeah, I think the White Kitchen was one of our favorites.
AS: White Kitchen Café?
BP: Yeah.
AS: You remember the White Kitchen Café, Art? No?
AP: Yes.
BP: And the Red Onion?
AP: The Red Onion.
BP: Which I read about in the paper just yesterday. It’s…up for sale, probably.
AS: Any other restaurants?
BP: I’ve forgotten the names of them.
AS: There are a lot.
BP: We’ll— we’d go to the Hotel Jerome and…mostly that was for the bar. But we would also, I guess, manage to eat something.
AP: The Jerome bar was the place to be.
AS: Was it the place to be? You could find everybody there?
BP: It’s not [indistinct]
AP: Good action.
AS: Good action! [laughing]
BP: They’d— they’d be at the, uh, Red Onion if they weren’t at the Jerome bar.
AS: It wasn’t too far of a stumble back home.
AP: No.
BP: And I got a job working for Ruthie Brown at the, uh…what was the name of our little shop? I’ve forgotten. And I lived at the pink house while I was— she had a little Vi— pink Victorian here. And she had room for her employees. That’s how I got here the first time. I called Ruthie, because my family felt I should have a job when I quit Saks rather abruptly to…
AS: Come out…
BP: …come out here and ski. And they thought, it’s alright to go to Aspen, that’s fine. But you can’t just be a play girl, you need to have a job. And I knew Ruthie Brown had lived…she invited me to her wedding but I never made it. But I remember she lived in a place called Carbondale. I thought, whoever heard of Carbondale? But I called her up and…
AS: This is Ruthie Hu— Ruth Humphrey who married… [Humphries]
BP: Yeah.
AS: Darc— D.R.C Brown.
BP: Yeah.
AS: Darcy Brown.
BP: And she had— she had been in the WASPs also, although I didn’t know her at that time.
AS: Okay.
BP: But that’s how I got here. I called her and asked if she knew of any jobs in Aspen. And she said, “You know, I’ve just got one employee and she eloped yesterday with a ski instructor. So there’s a job if you can get out here tomorrow!”
[laughing]
BP: And I bummed a ride on a plane with a bunch of horses. A friend of mine was flying into Denver and gave me a copilot job coming out here.
AS: [laughing]
BP: That got me here, and Ruthie put me up at the pink house and…
AS: Do you remember where the pink house was located?
BP: Oh sure. Right near the ice rink. Right across the street from the…
AS: The older ice rink?
BP: Yeah.
AS: Uh, in the…West End?
AP: Is that house torn down?
BP: No, the house is still there.
AS: I think there’s…
BP: The kids…
AS: There’s still a pink house. I’m not sure if it’s the same pink house.
BP: I’m sure it is.
AS: Right at— right near there.
BP: I think Ruthie gave it to the kids and the kids s— sold it, I think. She has a bunch of children.
AS: And uh…and you don’t remember what her business was?
BP: Ruthie’s business?
AS: Yeah.
BP: Oh we sold everything in the shop. We had ski pants and glassware and…it was in the mall, where the…
AS: It wasn’t the country…store?
BP: No, it was…along around the same period. Uh…it was not the country store, ‘cause we sold gifts as well as ski clothes, and I think…
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: …they didn’t. I think they did mostly clothing but I don’t remember.
AS: And, you remember where it was located?
BP: The, uh…oh, what is the name of it? There’s a, uh…my memory’s gone.
AS: [indistinct]
BP: There’s a nightclub there now, I think, that has the same name that our shop had. Smuggler! There’s not a nightclub there now. I was thinking of something else, but I think we were the Smuggler Gift Shop or the Smuggler Ski Shop.
AS: I’ll look it up. And that was…
BP: And I thought I’d stay for about two weeks and ski a little and work a little, and…then, I think as I recall, I stayed about two months, or three months. And then I had to go back east. My sister got married right in the middle of ski season, which was very…
[laughing]
BP: …unfortunate, because I had to be maid of honor. And it screwed up all my skiing. But I went back, and then the lifts closed for the season, and then I’d come back the next year and…see a little more of Art…and a little more of Art. But he had his friends and I had mine, and…
AS: Who were some of your friends out here?
BP: Oh, I don’t remember any of their names at this point.
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: Other ski bums. We were all kinda…I don’t remember.
AS: Do you remember where the Smuggler was located [indistinct]?
BP: Yes, the Paragon [indistinct]…
AS: The Paragon building, yes.
BP: That building. I’m sure that…almost sure that’s right.
AS: Yes, okay.
BP: Have you done Ruthie’s oral history?
AS: No, I just met her…I think we have one of her. But I just met her the other day, and Darcy Brown…
BP: Oh, really?
AS: I was very excited.
BP: I have some pictures here that I am going to…they have a place called Wagon Wheel, and these are s— some pictures I found the other day. She lived with me at the pink house, another employee of Ruthie’s. Her name was Harriet Rahm [?]. She’s passed away now.
AP: Let’s see that, Betty.
BP: And the lady next…I don’t know why my hair wasn’t grey, ‘cause I’ve never dyed it. But this must be…he’s passed away.
AS: Who’s that?
BP: This is Alex Thompson. This is, um…uh, Murdy [?] Robinson, and, again, Polly Thompson. And this gentleman passed away about a week ago, or two weeks ago. Corey Robinson, in Denver. But they’ve had a house here forever. And Art and Alec. This was their…much fancier version of Woods Lake. It’s been— they still have it. Beautiful place up at Wagon Wheel Gap, near Creed.
AS: Okay.
BP: I thought Ruthie would like these, so I got prints made for her.
AS: Well you’re just in time.
BP: They live here, they have a house here. Yeah. They live up…on…Heather Lane, Heather Road, whatever it’s called. Where do you live?
AS: I live over in Midland Avenue.
BP: I know where Midland…
AP: Where?
BP: …near Park?
AS: Yes. Midland Avenue, near Park Avenue.
BP: We used to have a dog that ran away and always went up there. Somebody was feeding her steak…
[laughing]
BP: …and we’d give her dog food, so [indistinct] a lot of trips to Midland Avenue, I can’t remember where.
AS: [laughing] Um…what— so you were flying…looks like you were a stewardess and you…would hitch rides on airplanes [laughing] as a copilot…
BP: [Hitch?]
AS: …um…and then, I know at some point, you got a helicopter? Is that right?
BP: M-hm.
AS: When did you get a helicopter and why?
BP: Oh, ‘cause I…was on my way to…where were we going? Fort— we were in Fort Worth to finish up my…there’s a rating called an Air Transport Rating. It’s the top rating there is that all the airline pilots have. And it’s a written and a…uh…written test and a flight test. And it takes quite a lot of work to get ready for it. So I had found a flight school in Fort Worth, Texas that could finish up my…um, called ATP, Air Transport Pilot rating. So I went with Art. And I didn’t travel that much ‘cause— with him, ‘cause we had three kids at that point, and I was kind of a stay-at-home mom. But I wanted to fin— I found my rating— I’d passed the written test and I needed to do the…um…flight part, which you couldn’t do anywhere else. So I found this place in— in Fort Worth. And I was with Art. And you had a customer at Bell Helicopter that was buying file folders and…stuff from Smead through you. And Art suggested I go meet his customer, which— totally out of character. I mean, normally I wasn’t with him on his sales trip. And, well, I chatted with this very nice guy that Art knew and paid business calls on. He wanted to know if I was there on all— all his business trips. And I explained no, that I was…starting, I think, the next day to…take this…flight test. And he didn’t even ask me—I’ve never forgotten. He just called his flight line at Bell Helicopter and said…something like, “I have a lady here who’s a pilot but she’s never been in…” And I could care less about a helicopter. I mean, no, never been in one. It’s okay, I guess, but…not excited at all. And he said, “And I want you to give her a ride in a helicopter and let her fly it.”
AS: [laughing]
BP: And here I was. I had on this tight, black skirt ‘cause we were dressed up to go out to dinner that night…and high heels—everything wrong— wrong and badly dressed to go for a helicopter flight. But, uh…anyway, I thought, I might as well do that while Art’s working. Whatever it is, it can’t be too bad.
AS: [laughing]
BP: And so they took me down to the flight line and put me in this helicopter with one of their top instructors. And oh, did I ever love it, after the first…two minutes. And they had horses in their practice field. And the horses were so used to helicopters. They just kept munching grass. You could land as close as Art sitting [indistinct], and they didn’t sc— it didn’t scare the horses at all ‘cause they were used to it every day…helicopters buzzing around.
AS: How fun. And…
BP: And I had a terrible time getting out of the helicopter ‘cause my skirt caught on one of the controls, this dumb, tight skirt I was wearing.
AS: [laughing]
AP: You remember that?
BP: I’ll never forget it, ‘cause I never…the next day, I went up— it was too expensive to take lessons there at Bell. It was very…I think it was $75 an hour or something, which was…
AS: [indistinct]
BP: …like, you know, a thousand dollars now. That’s not a good comparison but…
AS: Coup— like, $500 an hour?
BP: Yeah. So we found there was a lady in…Oklahoma. In Oklahoma City, or Tulsa…Tulsa, I guess…that could— that was teaching. She had her instructor’s rating. And, uh…she could take me on as a student for about half as much money…something li—less than that even, maybe $40 an hour.
AS: Did— Did Art take any…
BP: He did.
AS: …lessons?
BP: He said they’re noisy and they’re dangerous and they’re terrible, and…then he came back from working about two months later with this devilish look on his face. He said, “Guess what? I’m a helicopter pilot!” I said, “You couldn’t be!” And he’d gone to the same woman! And you chased jack rabbits when you were flying alone. You thought that was fun.
AP: I didn’t catch them.
AS: [laughing] You just chased them!
BP: No, you scared the heck out of them.
AS: [laughing]
BP: So that’s how I got into helicopters.
AS: How fun. So you guys e —did you guys ever buy one?
BP: Yeah, I had my own. It was really…
AP: Have a what?
AS: Have a…
BP: My own helicopter. I called it Tinkerbell. It was very— uh, I have a picture of it up on the wall and…
AP: Where is our…Tinkerbell?
BP: I— you made me sell it.
AP: Oh.
BP: You’re so mean.
AP: Where’s the money?
BP: I guess we spent it.
AP: Oh [laughing]. Alright.
AS: Tinkerbell…when did you buy it, do you remember…about…?
BP: Well, I got my helicopter license in…1963, so…I would say…right around in there.
AS: And you ended up selling it?
BP: And I started the Snowmass balloon races, which are happening as we speak.
AS: Yes.
BP: And what else have I done aviation-wise?
AS: Didn’t you do…something with…flying people around, or…did you…work with any of the rescues?
BP: I was— I was head of air rescue. I started it and I was head of it for about 20 years, 25 years.
AS: Air rescue?
BP: M-hm.
AS: And they were based out of…?
BP: Here.
AS: Out of here?
BP: We were it.
AS: You were it?
BP: If a little airplane was on a flight plan…I’m going to put her out, ‘cause…
AP: Hello, Jessie.
BP: …when she walks like that, I think…
AP: She wants to go outside. She [came to be seen?].
BP: Well, I’m not sure she does, but [indistinct].
AP: She just said, “I want outside, Art.”
BP: Art, don’t talk to her now. You’re ruining my system. Where did I see…?
[cut]
BP: So anyway, this is not supposed to be about me, and I didn’t want to keep interrupting when you were…
AS: That’s okay. I—I figured it was actually a good time to…looked like…Art was getting tired, and…it was a good time to…just continue on. [laughing] Um…now, so you did…
BP: Thr—Three aviation things that I would say I did mostly in Aspen are the— getting the control tower started when we were…nowhere near the normal criteria for…a control tower. So it— I had to go to Washington and camp out in this guy’s office and…finally he sent someone. I said, “Don’t believe me. I just happen to live there and I’m a pilot, and…But you send some of your people that you know and trust…some of your engineers, and…just have them spend two days in Aspen at the airport, and I think you’ll give us controllers.”
AS: [laughing]
BP: And that’s what they did.
AS: That’s, yeah, that’s great. And then you— the second thing you did?
BP: The hospital heliport was sort of my cookie.
AS: Heliport. Oh, so you helped get them…started with one?
BP: At the old hospital.
AS: At the one that— now, where the, um, longhouses are?
BP: That’s where John lives. He has one of those…apartments. It’s a beautiful location.
AS: Yeah. But that’s the old— the old hospital.
BP: Right.
AS: And…
BP: And then they weren’t gonna put one in at the new hospital— what was that? Twenty years ago or whatever. And I screamed and yelled and carried on and talked to the board members…and, uh, finally…
AS: I’m sure they’re very happy to have one.
BP: They are now. Sure, they’re thrilled. They use it…a lot more than we ever thought it would be—I thought it would be, but uh…and it’s mostly for outgoing and I planned it, really, for incoming…
AS: Right, but we…
BP: …victims.
AS: …we’re more of an outgoing— we send our patients off into…
BP: Right.
AS: …Junction or Denver.
BP: …So it’s…
AS: And then your third thing that you did was the…
BP: Air Rescue, the heliport, and the tower, I would say, were the three things that— and they took a lot of time to…organize and have meetings and decide what to do, and…
AS: And who’s in charge of Air Rescue now?
BP: I’d say, uh, Rick Dean is probably number one guy. He might not be technically head of it, but…If I knew a little airplane was down right this minute, he’s the first guy I’d call and if…he were not available, he would know who is. And I had one woman pilot. She’s still a member—Polly Ross.
AS: Polly Ross, yes.
BP: And, uh…
AS: She volunteers at the Historical Society.
BP: Does she?
AS: M-hm.
BP: Good for her.
AS: And then that’s probably, kind of your…the last thing that most people r…maybe the next generation really knows you about is the…Old Timers…party…
BP: Oh yeah.
AS: …that everybody wants to go to. When did you guys…start that, and…what made you start it?
BP: Gee, I know Margaret Albouy, who’s passed away…uh, and I were sort of the first two co-hostesses…and…Do you want to lie down, Art?
AP: Yeah.
BP: I think I can tell.
[cut]
AS: We’re back with Betty. Art went and took a nap…and…
BP: I hate it when I don’t remember things.
AS: We’re actually back to, um…the Old Timers, and you were talking about Margaret Albouy?
BP: Yes.
AS: And that you guys start— got together co-hosting the Old Timers.
BP: And then Margaret passed away some time during the next year, so…I think we skipped— my memory’s terrible, but I think we skipped a year or two. And then, about three years later, we decided— I decided it was really a great event and…people…especially those who were moving away from Aspen because of the expense of living here at that time…um…wanted to come back and see their buddies, the ones who stayed and…so I think we had about 600 people at the barbecue. And then after a few years of doing that, I thought, it’s kind of like out-of-town wedding guests. They come all the way from Grand Junction or Denver and…you want to give them some kind of entertainment, so we started the brunch…
AS: Oh, okay.
BP: …which some people like even better because it’s about half as big. It’s been consistently…if it’s 300 this year at the barbecue, the brunch was a hundred and fifty and you can talk better and…
AS: That’s exactly what it was this year.
BP: So [indistinct]…
AS: [laughing]
BP: …that was this year’s— those were this year’s figures.
AS: Yep.
BP: But we would have about 600 at the barbecue— oh we were so naïve, the way we made— what do you call it? Nametags. It was ridiculous. And then we…didn’t know how to work the computer. I heard you could run a nametag on the computer….But we spent hours, making be— bigger and better nametags, which was kind of dumb.
AS: [laughing] And you guys…you guys ended up…passing the baton over to the Historical Society…?
BP: Yes, about…maybe three years ago, I would guess? Two to three years.
AS: It’s more than three, ‘cause I was…
BP: Georgia would know exactly.
AS: It was about four…maybe four or five, ‘cause I…
BP: Not much more than that, ‘cause I still worked my butt off…
AS: Then it was four years ago, ‘cause…I know my first— one of my years that I started working at the Historical Society, they— I volunteered, um, for the brunch. But the Historical Society was…
BP: I had the flower ladies. I had about…ten ladies that I got all of— real fresh flowers donated by the lady that actually this arrangement came from yesterday, the Aspen Branch. And Beth gave me all these little vases about this big and we’d— I think I had 40 tables and I’d have a vase of fresh flowers—just daisies, but…somebody had to cut them and arrange them and it was fun. A little different. We gave them to all the women as they left.
AS: Nice.
BP: So that was— I don’t know what year. And we tried to keep the price, and did keep it down, very, very low, so that…anybody who wanted to attend could…I forget what the barbecue costs this year but…uh…
AS: I think it’s 35…
BP: It depended if you were a member of the Historical Society or not. But, uh, anyway…um, I’m glad I’m not doing it anymore. I figured that’s…somebody else’s…but I think the idea is good. And…course, some of the old timers forget to go and some of them thought, well, if they needed to be here 30 years ago, and some would say 35, and that got all mixed up and…
AS: We’re working on that.
BP: I’m glad someone else is taking it over.
AS: That’s kind of your last baby that you’ve been really involved in.
BP: Yeah.
AS: Now you guys are taking it a little bit easier? You still have family in t— around?
BP: I have two daughters— well, one of them is actually just in process of moving to…Santa Fe, and…just found a house there as of a week ago, last Tuesday. And, um…one that lives next to her up on west Buttermilk, and another one lives in California.
AS: Okay.
BP: So they…the one in California has a daughter who just started college in…Oakland, California. Uh…trying to think of the name. It’s…California College of Art. And she loves to design jewelry and does some very interesting work and they…that’s what she wants to major in. But they’re making her take English and history and I don’t know what all required, so she’s not very happy at this point.
AS: [laughing]
BP: She’s 20 years old.
AS: Right. So that’s kind of your…
BP: And then I have four little grandsons: two from Suzanne and two from Christina. And, uh…they’ll all be here for Chr— well, two of them live here with their dad. Mom and Dad are divorced. Doug Kelso and…and his wife, Suzanne…been divorced a couple years now.
AS: And you guys plan living…living here for the rest…
BP: Rest of our lives?
AS: Yeah.
BP: Oh, we’re not gonna move anywhere, I don’t think. The winters are kind of long if you don’t ski, but I still…like it a lot. So does Art. And, uh…traveling is— outside of doing it in a private airplane, is fine, but to…go commercial today, we’re…getting pretty tired to…it’s— it’s hard to, uh…travel.
AS: I understand. Well, thank you very much. And thank Art.
BP: I will.
AS: [laughing]
BP: You’ve been easy to talk with, or to.
AS: Oh, thank you. Um…it was very nice…
BP: I can show you some of our pictures, if you want, before you go.
AS: Yes, I would love to see some.
BP: And then if you really would like those two big ones on the wall downstairs, the aerial shots, um…one of them I can get…uh…
AS: We’ll get those. [indistinct] One of them’s nailed to the wall, so we’ll have to…work on that.
BP: Exactly. We’ll have to un— un-nail…
AS: [laughing] Well I just— just to finish up, um, thank you for telling us your stories…uh, both of you.
BP: You’re so welcome.
AS: And, um…we’re just now gonna end our interview. We interviewed both…um, Betty and Art Pfister. And we’d like to thank them. This is again September 16th of 2006. Thanks.
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